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Comment by jganetsk | Hacker News Reader

People are not going to start hating Americans. They have already been hating Americans for hundreds of years. It started with the "degeneracy thesis" in the 18th century, where it had been suggested by European intellectuals that the American climate led to physically inferior animals and humans. The reasons for hating Americans change everyday.

Hating a group of people is a completely irrational, unconstructive approach to solving a problem. If one has anger about something, they shouldn't lash out at group of people.

If people want Americans to change something on their behalf, for their benefit, it needs to be from a standpoint of respect. They can start by asking nicely.

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Respect, sure. But "asking nicely"? How has that not been done already, over and over and over?

"Nobody in the world, nobody in history, has ever gotten their freedom by appealing to the moral sense of the people that were oppressing them." -- Assata Shakur

Even though we could argue about wether this stuff consititutes "oppression", I think the point still applies, sadly.

> "Nobody in the world, nobody in history, has ever gotten their freedom by appealing to the moral sense of the people that were oppressing them." -- Assata Shakur

I think there are one or two examples in recent history. The LGBT movement has made a great deal of ground recently by appealing to peoples' sensibilities.

Now, in more extreme cases you aren't going to talk the oppressors out of anything. I doubt anybody has ever stopped a genocide with rational argument and appeal to the murderers' sensibilities.

I'm not sure what we are talking about here. The US government is oppressing everyone... both Americans and non-Americans.

In theory, the American people are the only ones with the power to solve this problem. This responsibility is a burden. Before going to bat, I would rather encounter friendly encouragement than smug contempt.

For what it's worth, you have mine. Encouragament that is, not contempt. Although I'm not convinced all Americans are yet aware of the fact that they themselves also are at the wrong end of this gun, I'm sure the number increases daily. And generally I don't think excluding people for what others force on them, or even for their ignorance, or even for their hybris, really leads anywhere. So many Americans have my support and even admiration, and even the ones I do resent (not in a smug way though, I'm under no such delusions I would hope), I would rather argue with, or, at worst, bitch at (but never, ever, "ask nicely" :P), than outright shun. Letting someone simmer in their own sauce can work with individuals, but in nations I think it always strengthens the autocratic and warmongering elements.

Yes, you're right, it's racist to oppose NSA spycraft.

> They can start by asking nicely.

"Can you please kindly, stop perpetuating your morally bankrupt spy-state?"

Gosh. That achieved a lot.

Did I say anything about opposing NSA spycraft? Did I say anything about racism, for that matter?

I'm talking about hating Americans. It's irrational, unconstructive, and not a novel thing to do. It's certainly not going to accomplish anything against NSA spycraft.

If anything is going to change about NSA spycraft, especially on behalf of the rights of foreign nationals, having the rest of the world consider all Americans enemies is going to be counterproductive.

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