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Comment by dmix | Hacker News Reader

Interesting, I hadn't heard of Hayden White before:

> He has argued that historical writing mirrors literary writing in many ways, sharing the strong reliance on narrative for meaning, therefore ruling out the possibility for objective or truly scientific history. White has also argued, however, that history is most successful when it embraces this "narrativity", since it is what allows history to be meaningful.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayden_White

This is relevant considering most non-fiction writing today is influence by "new journalism" and adopts a fiction/literary form. Often using a narrative structure similar to screenwriting (beginning/middle/end) which is antithetical to scientific history.

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If a screenwriterly narrative is moving away from scientific history, how could we move closer? Simply publish historical data in table form? It seems like as soon as you employ verbs that imply causality you are subject to White's analysis here.

One can include the narratives of the key figures depicted. One recent Israeli movie, The Gatekeepers, did so (for leaders of Israel's security service), and the differences in opinions remained unsettled at the end of the film.

Self-reflexion. White's point is that these narratives and meta-narratives exist and are simply something we do. The way to go forward from there is to incorporate that into one's own writing by reflecting the implicit (or implied) biases, narratives and meta-structures. I think this is the case with many of thinkers like him, from Derrida over Foucault to White, that their theories are nothing that can be in any way "applied" to make something better. Instead, what they introduce is a moment of self-reflexion, where we do not just criticise somebody else for their (implicit or explicit) reliance on hierarchies or "external" truths, but instead also question our own influences, connotations and motivations.

I really like this post, and I feel like the only incorrect response is to respond. (although 2nd thought is that Derrida's project is to show us that none of the recursive attempts to account for this phenomenon ("employing narrative") prevent it)

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