Low-end laptops:The rise of the Chromebook | Hacker News Reader

Low-end laptops:The rise of the Chromebook

zdnet.com

28 pointstanglesome50 comments

I have a hard time understanding why Chromebooks are getting so much praise over the internet, but at the same time Windows RT is considered as the worst piece of technology ever invented. Aren't they mostly the same thing? Both Windows RT and ChromeOS machines are similarly priced, both can be used to browse the internet and access web apps. Windows RT machine usually ship with Office 2013 for free (or the light version of it). They all have touch screens ( I dont think all Chromebooks machine have it). And last time I checked, android apps didnt work natively on Chromebooks, meaning that Windows RT machine have access to more applications than Chromebooks. This will probably be a very unpopular opinion, but I really don't understand why one is so popular vs the other (is it only explicable by the fact that most people hate Microsoft, but love Google?)

I never looked at it like this, but the way you put it, they are remarkably similar. Thanks for showing me this perspective.

Windows RT comes off as "Windows that you're familiar with" with the RT part as a huge asterisk that means "except you can't just install what you'd expect to be able to."

Chrome OS comes off as "Chrome, the browser on your computer"

The former is underwhelming whereas the latter meets expectations.

The ChromeBook has been explicitly designed and marketed as a low-cost alternative for people who just want to access the web. Most ChromeBooks are around $100-300.

Windows RT machines are usually between $300-$600, and were marketed as "Windows" machines, which brought with it a set of expectations that Windows RT machines were not able to meet. People assumed that "it runs Windows" meant that it ran their apps, but that just wasn't true in this case.

I am aware that there are some ChromeBooks that are really expensive, and Microsoft introduced desperation price cuts at certain points, but that's the basic story.

Probably because of the name Windows - people had high expectations of it, which it did not deliver for obvious reasons - you want 'real' Windows, you go with Windows 8.

Also, ChromeOS is cloud based (good luck using it offline, lol) and easy to manage centrally, while RT is basically Android for tablets.

The reason I purchased mine today is that I will never purchase a Windows 8 machine because I hate them and I can't afford a Mac. So the only other OS and that is supported and is cheap is ChromeOS. Its all well and good saying Linux, However you have to buy a Windows 8 laptop before you can even put Linux on it.

They have opened up there BIOS, and putting Linux on it is just as easy as any other laptop. Been using one for 1.5 years now.

what in chrome or windows 8?

Chromebook. See Crouton.

Wow love it :-)

Yep. I'm on work's Windows 7 laptop right now and hating it. (Linux Toshiba brightness bug is too annoying to live in Ubuntu.) Next netbook I buy will likely be one of these.

You could object and get your Windows(~$200) money in pre-Windows 8 era. Not sure about how it works now.

No OEM is going to pay $200 for Windows, so they're not going to refund you $200 for Windows. $40 is more realistic.

I can't afford a Mac

Consider buying used, either from Craigslist or a dealer; three-year-old Macs are still very nice and cost about half to a third of new ones (I know, because I sell my firm's old Macs on Craigslist).

If you're proficient with hardware, it's also possible to dramatically improve performance by installing a cheap SSD.

I did - I got a PowerPC G4 or G5. The problem was I couldn't upgrade it past os 10.5 and the latest version of chrome at the time wouldn't run on anything less than 10.6 or something like that so nothing would work properly.

Or go with a 'Hac' - get a cheap laptop that can run Mac OS X, they work surprisingly well, updates and all...

I know of one person who has brought one and ended up describing it as useless, selling it on, and buying a macbook air.

I've not seen or heard of anyone else with one. Shipping volumes do not equal consumer purchases, so till I actually see people with them I'll take this as some sort of advertorial.

I bought a Samsung ARM Chromebook to play around with and see what Chrome OS is like. It definitely has a single-purpose, very limited use case - to deliver web content. But, it does this extremely well.

The good parts: Automatic syncing with Google services, such that you can wipe everything and restore, and it will automatically reinstall all of your applications and settings; encrypted storage and signed binaries so it is difficult if not impossible to load malware; and a very polished UI that gets you into a browser and gets out of the way to let you surf the web.

However, it does start breaking down when you want to start doing more CPU-intensive tasks like gaming, there is a big gap right now between where HTML5 gaming is and what native gaming (even through Flash) delivers. For a system that runs all apps through the browser, that is going to continue being difficult. Also, the almost-continuously-online requirement can be tough in some cases, but really I already have wifi everywhere I want to use it...

I can see it being a great option for 95% of day-to-day computer users, though. Mine was $250, and it definitely outperforms low-end laptops - great battery life, good speed, lightweight, etc.

Not to mention it can run a full version of armhf Ubuntu so I can still run tuxracer when necessary.

TFA may be an advertorial, but I see Chromebooks as the evolution of the original netbook idea - a cheap PC that goes everywhere and is good enough for most online activities.

also bought this, the only problem is there're so less REALLY offline chrome apps in the store

Counterdote: I know a person who bought one and thinks it absolutely perfect for both entertainment and development, as he shells into other machines if he needs to and gets amazing battery life.

Chrome Remote Desktop means I can access my Desktop computer anywhere in my house that I want to.

A cheap Windows RT tablet/laptop can do this too. Plus, you can even use the RT device without internet (since it has more than a couple decent off line apps).

There are also offline Chrome apps that you can use without internet.

Also, you're kind-of a little bit lying.

Chrome Remote Desktop works through (most) firewalls, no configuration required.

In order to use Windows Remote Desktop, you'd need to open up your firewall by hand.

Also, Chrome Remote Desktop lets me use two-factor authentication to log in, where Windows Remote Desktop is much, much more vulnerable.

Some discussion on the Debian forums (Chromebooks are popular as cheap laptops that can run Linux) about actually using the ChromeOS, quite a few people dual boot [1]

My local Tesco is shifting the cheaper Chromebooks quite quickly.

[1] http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=107358

Yet another "PC is dying" article. Booooooring!!!

The reality is that market is saturated, and there was practically zero innovation for the past 5 years (except ultrabooks and SSDs). But as a working tool PCs are not going anywhere.

I want laptop with 4:3 high resolution PVA screen and replaceable battery.

The reality is that most people don't want a "full" PC. The PC certainly isn't going anywhere - desktops and laptops are here to stay for the foreseeable future. However, it's not a growing market. And that's perfectly OK.

Even if the laptop & desktop PC markets are not growing as fast as in past years...it still is a very large market. There is far less incentive for most people to buy newer or higher-end hardware for the PC than smartphones.

Mobile devices (tablets, smartphones...and even chromebooks or lightweight notebooks) are competing against the sales of higher-end laptops or desktops.

I think there may be a resurgence of laptop sales (and desktop sales) after a few more years of intense innovation.

Why do you need a replaceable battery? 12 hours is really not enough for you?

Task which use CPU a lot eats battery much faster.

Granted, but do you plan to carry half a dozen batteries with you to compensate for that, or just find somewhere to plug in?

No, I usually have 3 batteries. Plug-in is not always possible (airplane, train) or convenient (client office, restaurant). Sometimes I do not carry an adapter.

I wonder what of those cheep Chromebooks are suite to free them from Google spyware? How good or bad is a normal Debian running? Is the hardware supported by 100% free drivers? Can I boot my own Kernel? Is there any site comparing this?

Chromebook with Google spyware is a big step backward from eeepc.

You can Ubuntu them pretty easily, either side-by-side or replacing ChromeOS. Bang, you have a netbook just like a few years ago.

Googled about it, but crouton only installs Ubuntu in a chroot of same kernel. Thats similar shit as Motorola with 2nd-boot.

The question is to free the Chromebook from Google spyware completely, including kernel, device drivers, and OpenGL acceleration.

Is any of those Chromebooks able to boot into backup cycle? Means boot with DCHP, TFTP and NFS root?

You can definitely wipe out the entire ChromeOS partition and replace it with some other Linux if that's what you want. Some people do that but it's definitely less common than dual booting or a chroot.

For my use case, I love my chromebook. I started with the samsung arm chromebook and have since moved to the Asus 720, and it has become my go-to around-town/coffeshop/travel laptop.

A) it's light -- other devices are lighter but it's light enough. B) decent battery life -- again other device might win here but it lasts a work day so I can leave the charger behind. C) it's cheap -- almost disposable, if I leave it behind, it gets stolen, or destroyed I'm not going to lose my mind. D) it still functional for content creation -- paired with nitrous.io it's fantastic but even without it I can get by at least until I get back to a real workstation.

But then again my use case may be pretty narrow but it works really well for me, that hits the sweet spot between an iPad and a MacBook Air at a fraction of price of either.

Rise of the Chromebook indeed. I think we will be seeing A LOT of these being used by software engineers. For $250, you get a very capable Haswell-equipped notebook with 8 hours of battery life and can easily accept a Ubuntu installation (ChromeOS is built on the Ubuntu core, so technically you can dual-boot and never even uninstall ChromeOS.)

In fact, I've done just this with the new Acer C720 machine. While I use a Macbook Air as my main machine, the Acer with Ubuntu fills the "beater" role very nicely and is really more than is needed.

This is a godsend for developing nations.

Also makes you wonder when you hear people talking about "bootstrapping" and you see them using new Macbook Airs...

> Also makes you wonder when you hear people talking about "bootstrapping" and you see them using new Macbook Airs...

It's a matter of how much you value general purpose capabilities. When you'll desperately need Photoshop for some unpredicted task, will you pay 5$ a month for Adobe cloud and just do it, or hassle to find a way around you ubuntu ? Won't you miss a specification sent by a client because LibreOffice parsed the docx formatting of a paragraph as striked through instead of highlighted? If you have four or five "crisis" like that while struggling to make a product, is the extra 900$ for a Macbook Air unjustified ?

I think you're missing a significant 0 on that Creative Cloud price.

You're right, it's 50$ for full monthly membership, 20$/month for single app and it goes down only for ultra specific cases (i.e. 10$ for photoshop only for existing CS3 license owners [1]).

I messed it with the Revel subscription witch is lower (but still 6$, 1$ higher than I remembered)

[1]http://www.adobe.com/products/creativecloud/buying-guide.htm...

The Chromebook Pixel costs $1,449.00

That you can buy designer jeans for $500 doesn't make all jeans hoity-toity.

The one thing I really like about the ChromeOS is the way it updates. It basically has two root partitions and it updates the one it is currently not booted from. I am unaware of any other OS that uses such as scheme.

With advanced file-system technology, it should be possible to load a "shadow image" of the new version of the OS and "commit" it atomically. Smalltalk can be thought of as a very basic sort of OS, and some versions of that had the ability to load as a "shadow" a new version of the class library, then commit it atomically. (Including updates of the part doing the updating.)

Solaris used to market this concept quite a bit, they called it "Live Upgrade"

I've never seen one and the reviews I find on Youtube mostly cover hardware.

So these Chromebooks, you can basically only use browser-apps? Is this what these laptops do? Or can I install native apps in some way?

Think of a netbook running just the chrome browser and that's it.

However with chrome you can install addons, extentions and apps.

I love it

I just wish it were a viable development platform without having to install a *nix distro. Let me set up and run a MEAN stack out of the box, Google!

i am using my arm chromebook, it has the power for my daily developing and it even has a terminal. its batterlife is also good. with the help of crouton, its perfect to me.

well, it still has problem when using the input method on the terminal, but its ok to you guys who dont need that

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