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Comment by krelian | Hacker News Reader

So nitpickers might point out differences but you cannot deny that the basic tab looks just like Chrome's. When Chrome came out with this it was new and innovative. Now it looks like a copy.

When this blatant copying happens (and it happens in many places; it's no wonder all phones look like a variation of the original iphone) I always wonder if the designers really did convince themselves that their design is different or they tried but just couldn't come up with anything better than their inspiration.

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http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3696/8994445994_c0939b83ca_o.p...

I recommend you take another look. They're not really the same at all.

Firefox's designers were not going for the angular and mechanical chrome look at all. They were designing something softer, rounder and more human.

They're also pretty much the next evolution of the FF tab design as things go "minimalist". The current tabs are curvy as well.

Personally, I like the rounded edges but just adding a corner radius isn't exactly falling far from the Chrome tree.

Good thing that's not all they are doing.

Bad thing there's not much other changes.

There are a LOT of changes to the UI. They did far more than just change the tab location.

> I recommend you take another look.

Actually, I recommend you take another look. Chrome's tabs are significantly more rounded than in your illustration.

There's a bit of an optical illusion. Next to a curvy tab, Chrome's tab looks angular.

Here's an actual side-by-side snapshot: <http://i.imgur.com/sUGCX5I.png>

Oh, well. That's obviously a huge difference.

if you put any other app tabs next to it, including current firefox.. its a "huge" difference as well. So yeah. pointless argument is pointless...

My illustration is based on the images in Chrome's retina mac image source files.

That's exactly the nitpicking I was referring to. If the corners are round or not makes little difference. The main thing here is the general outline of the tab and it's position in the window. If we can expand further we can also include the main menu which is in exactly the same spot with the same icon (maybe it's a standard icon, I've never seen it before Chrome and in earlier versions Chrome had, if I recall correctly, a wrench and screwdriver icon).

I think that once you've used the two side by side, you'll change your tune. Australis is actually a much larger departure from looking like Chrome in the tab strip. Seriously, use it for a couple of weeks, then open the two side by side in the middle of a browsing session and it'll be clear to you that the visual experience is not at all alike in practice.

I don't know. I see the new tabs as an extension of the existing tabs [0]. All that's different is the curve flares are bigger. As someone who doesn't use Chrome much anymore, I thought these changes in Firefox seemed like natural extensions and refinements of existing designs.

Now, the elimination of the options bar ("File Edit View History ...") on Linux does seem more in line with Chrome, but on Windows it's been that way for a while.

I think this is a classic case of converging designs, not copying. A good idea is a good idea, no matter how you reach it.

[0] - http://i.imgur.com/m2ozMz3.png

Well if you go that way, firefox tabs from the previous release look also the same as chrome and australis.. so uhm, you saying Chrome copied firefox tabs? (in fact, yes it did, but then again, everyone uses tabs, obviously)

Tabs are a design idea that predates the web. You'll find them on physical file folders, binders, and address books, for example. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that tabs were invented hundreds of years ago.

I think OP was talking about Chrome’s tabs specifically. Their appearance and the way they function. Firefox had tabs well before Chrome (and IIRC Opera had tabs well before Firefox).

Chrome's tab shape didn't exactly originate in a vacuum, though.

https://www.google.com/search?tbs=imgo%3A1&tbm=isch&q=manila...

It seems slightly disingenuous to claim that every use of non-square tabs is copying Chrome.

Putting the tab bar on the very top was introduced in Chrome. It was the first browser that did that, the others followed soon.

Chrome didn't even exist when firefox had tabs, but I don't think there was ever a version of Chrome without tabs.

> it's no wonder all phones look like a variation of the original iphone

There is only so many way you can make a phone that consists of a big screen with a few buttons along the bottom look. Since the big screen is the main feature, and big screens look like big screens, this is a limit of the function of the phone.

The buttons are what the non-iPhones get wrong.

If I'm not mistaken Chrome's bar is just a copy from Opera also (witch i'm sure didn't came up with the concept).

The thing is: there are UX patterns that are better than others. That's not copying, it's just common sense.

I have heard people argue that this design was done first in Firefox mockups many years ago, the Chrome team implemented it, now Firefox is implementing it too.

Sounds to me like focusing on the slight shift in tab location, as pioneered by Chrome, is exactly the kind of nitpicking you're complaining about. It's not like moving the tabs up a couple pixels fundamentally changed the browser.

When Opera first pioneered tabs they were found on the bottom. It was Firefox that made the drastic (though unsurprising) change of moving them above the page contents. One could argue maybe Chrome should not have employed this "tired" design choice and perhaps placed their tabs on the left (a la Ubuntu Unity). But this whole line of argumentation sounds ridiculous when someone has already figured out a pretty optimal place for those tabs.

It's not just any "couple of pixels" that can make a crucial difference in the UX. It's not about the number of pixels, it's about moving the tab bar to the edge of the screen that matters. See http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2006/08/fitts-law-and-infin...

Yes obviously Google was not the first one to put that principle to some use, but their browser was the first one among web browsers.

Personally I hated how Opera left a few pixels gap between the tabs and the screen edge (I have no idea if they still do).

A few pixels was just enough to make sure that I had to move the mouse cursor a little bit back every time I wanted to click on a tab.

How can you say FF copied the tab design from Chrome when neither one of them created the concept of tabbed browsing in the first place? They are both using the conceptual model of tabbed folders, which have been around for ages. Curved-corner tabs and sharp-corner tabs are both variants of the same thing. Nobody even cares how the tabs look.

Clearly, both Firefox and Chrome are copying Avery. They are literally killing innovation.

The only thing that I'd label as being inspired by chrome is their proximity to the top, which is what people saw as new and innovative at the time. If they'd just stopped there, you might have a point. But they didn't.

Naw, I am pretty sure they know they are copying. Did they ever say otherwise?

They just say "hmm, that was a good idea, I think I can do even better" repeatedly, and so UX improves.

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