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Comment by iand | Hacker News Reader

I disagree and the article is based on a category error. The words introvert and extrovert are defined to be classifications of people not particular traits exhibited by those people.

extrovert: an outgoing, socially confident person

introvert: a shy, reticent person

They are defined in terms of particular traits:

shyness: the quality or state of being shy

confidence: the feeling or belief that one can have faith in or rely on someone or something.

People can have differing degrees of each trait and differ in how they exhibit those in different social situations. However, by definition, if a person is predominantly shy and reticent in most social situations then we're justified in calling them an introvert.

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    > ... if a person is predominantly shy and reticent in 
    > most social situations then we're justified in calling 
    > them an introvert.

Sure, just understand that you're using the colloquial definition of "introvert" (a synonym for "shy") and not the technical definition, as developed for the Meyers-Briggs Personality Type Indicator:

    "People who prefer extraversion draw energy from 
    action: they tend to act, then reflect, then act
    further. If they are inactive, their motivation 
    tends to decline. To rebuild their energy, extraverts 
    need breaks from time spent in reflection. Conversely,
    those who prefer introversion "expend" energy through 
    action: they prefer to reflect, then act, then reflect
    again. To rebuild their energy, introverts need quiet
    time alone, away from activity."

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers-Briggs_Type_Indicator#Att...

How does one identify a definition as technical?

Awesome, by pointing out that the parent comment possibly intended to say "actual" instead of "technical," you've debunked his entire argument. Congratulations, you win the game.

How do you identify a definition as being "actual"? Why are the Myers-briggs authors the authority on introversion? Many people consider the MBTI to be bunk science, and the term "introvert" has been around for much longer than the MBTI.

EDIT: Also, why does there have to be just one definition anyway?

Words have meaning. You're welcome to make new ones.

Don't quote me, but I believe that the term "introvert" was coined by psychologists who were studying personality traits, and they had a very specific meaning in mind.

You have these backwards. The definition I gave of introvert is the accepted/technical/actual definition. Myers Briggs use the word introversion to capture a concept that is much wider than introvert. For example it makes claims and assertions about the mechanism of "drawing and rebuilding energy" which is clearly a metaphor, not an actually measurable quantity.

Ok, I'm getting confused then... The article uses the Meyers-Briggs definitions.

I'm struggling to find the definition you're using. For example I found this:

    "Introversion is not the same thing as shyness but it is 
    often mistaken as such by extroverts, who may find it 
    difficult to relate to introverted tendencies. Introverts 
    prefer solitary activities over social ones, whereas shy 
    people (who may be extroverts at heart) avoid social 
    encounters out of fear." [1]

Yet if I understand you correctly, there is another definition of introversion that equates introversion with shyness. Can you provide a link or expand your explanation?

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraversion_and_introversion

Shyness is an effect, not a cause.) And it is an effect of many different causes. It could be inability to cope with other people due to some deficits, as in a mild form of autism know as Asperger syndrome, or it could be a result of a childhood traumas, or, which is usually the case, some genetic predisposition and environmental causes and social deficits and some kind of feedback loops leading to a repetitive behavior.

Asperger's is a learned behavior, which could be unlearned and retrained by a set of CBTs, while severe forms of autism, which are caused by some neurological deficits in much greater extent that just environmental feedback, cannot be altered by mere CBT.

That's the first I've heard of Aspergers being a learned behaviour. Can you link somewhere that I can read more about that.

I have nothing to link, but myself fighting with it my whole life.)

Maybe you are fighting the wrong battle. Instead of trying to "unlearn" Aspergers, perhaps you should accept it and fight for understanding by others.

It is a nice wording, but in reality people who have it without knowing they have it are really miserable and unhappy ones.

Usually people have no idea, and actively reject any possibility that something is wrong with them, instead of with the world.

Asperger's could be treated by CBTs, which any professional western psychologist (or eastern teacher) will tell you. Usually, you is the only one who could help you, especially in ignorant, third-world country.

Just because you are able to overcome something doesn't mean it was learned in the first place.

In some sense everything is learned, from the ability to hold ones head and stand erect (every child learns this by trial and error) to habits and behavioral patterns.

Social habits (or skills as we call them) are definitely learned rather than hardwired.

Reading facial expressions, maintaining eye-contact, following other's gaze, catching other's emotions is hard-wired, while patterns of using such abilities (habits) are learned and could be altered.

Bingo. Shyness is an effect of the situation. Maybe the topic is not conducive to conversation, or maybe the people are drab and gossipy, and the so-called "introvert" is not having it.. Shyness is rarely a solid trait and more over a symptom of an overlying conflict/rift with social interaction. Everyone likes to socialize, that is only _human_.

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