Comment by jpatokal | Hacker News Reader

Comment by jpatokal | Hacker News Reader

Visiting Silicon Valley as I type this, and I didn't rent a car this time. Looking at the States with a pair of foreign eyes, I can assure you that this country in general, and California in particular, remains thoroughly wedded to the motor vehicle.

As a trivial example, there's a Taco Bell located literally about 300 feet from where I'm staying, but getting there on foot requires a detour of about a mile because it, like all other business establishments on El Camino Real (substitute your suburban highway of choice), is surrounded by concrete wall on all three sides except the one facing the highway. Which means the foolish pedestrian needs to walk around the entire block to get there.

Another trivial example of pedestrian-hostility: the city of Mountain View, being run by nice, eco-friendly hippies sucking on the Google bong, has banned plastic bags in supermarkets, mandating the use of paper bags instead. However, this also has the side effect of making it virtually impossible to complete your shopping by any means other than car, since paper bags disintegrate if you look at them sideways or attempt to carry them more than the distance from checkout to parking lot, much less (say) stuff them in your backpack, hang them from the handlebars of your bike, or even swing them a bit while waiting at the traffic lights.

mandating the use of paper bags instead

No: Mandating the use of bags other than disposable plastic bags.

I typically carry a couple of reusable bags inside my messenger bag. For items which don't fit in the latter, I can lug a couple of bags worth of groceries or other shopping items easily. And the reusable bags are markedly more durable than even disposable plastic bags.

> However, this also has the side effect of making it virtually impossible to complete your shopping by any means other than car.

Just use reusable bags. You even say you have a backpack. Why don't you use that?

Plastic bags haven't been banned, just disposable plastic bags. The idea is to bring a reusable bag or two with you to the store.

Which, despite being a nice idea in theory, now means that when you've forgotten (usually) and still need food, now you end up taking a car back with your paper-bagged groceries.

I don't understand what you're saying. I don't own a car. I live in Santa Cruz, where disposable plastic bags are also banned. I do my grocery shopping using reusable bags either on a bike or taking the bus. Where do "forgetting," cars, and paper bags enter into the equation?

    "hang them from the handlebars of your bike"

If you are doing this, you are increasing your chances of an accident. Get a bike rack and panniers.

Is it hard to buy reusable shopping bags (or backpacks, since you're talking about bikes) in Mountain View?

Dunno, I'm here on a business trip. But the problem with reusable bags is that you have to know to bring them in advance, which is OK for the weekly massive shopping excursion, but not feasible for the "we're out of eggs and milk, please pick up some on your way back from work" situation.

Back in Melbourne I shopped a lot by bike, and I'd never put anything even in my backpack without a plastic bag around it, because meat leaks, yogurt bursts, glass jars break etc. A paper bag would rip if you tried this, and soak through instantly if something did spill.

> But the problem with reusable bags is that you have to know to bring them in advance

Or, you know, buy them in the store the time you forget. It adds a little expense, sure, but if your walking your not going to be buying more than one or two, and having a few extras around is useful.

> which is OK for the weekly massive shopping excursion, but not feasible for the "we're out of eggs and milk, please pick up some on your way back from work" situation.

Actually, there are ultracompact folding reusable bags that can easily be carried in a pocket or even fit on a keychain (and, also, would take a trivial amount of room in a backpack, briefcase, etc.) If you really have a non-car-using lifestyle, it really isn't that much of a burden to keep one handy for incidental shopping.

I keep a few disposable plastic bags in my bike bag for this kind of situation. They're almost weightless, and balled up take up very little space.

So what are you going to do when you can't get disposable plastic bags anymore?

Personally, I kind of like Finland's solution: plastic bags cost money, but not much ($0.25-ish), and they're way sturdier than the usual wispy ones in the US. So they're reusable (unlike paper bags), there's an incentive to reuse them, and they're way more functional and sturdy than paper bags.

Learn parkour? :D

I pretty seriously considered scaling the wall of the motel opposite Taco Bell, but a) I would probably have gotten shot, or at least had the cops called on me, and b) it's hard to climb when you're carrying a piping-hot Chalupa Steak Supreme. (And oh god, was it awful. Shudder.)

Incidentally, Taco Bell was happy to serve me my take-out in a plastic bag. Make of that what you will.

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