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Hotels typically keep a credit card on file for incidental charges. Minibar items are covered under incidental charge if not paid at checkout time.

If a company credit card is kept on file and the guest doesn't pay for the minibar usage, the company's credit card is charged. The guest might think the hotel never goes after him but in reality the company is footing the bills. The guest is exploiting his own company.

If the company's credit card is stipulated only for the room charges and nothing else, the hotels will ask the guest to provide a credit card for incidentals. This is same as prepaying hotel nights with Priceline, where a separate credit card is needed for incidentals at check-in time.

It may be a regional thing. Many (I'd say most, but I don't know the actual percentage) hotels in North America require a credit card, even if you're paying by cash. They will just charge the card after you leave.

That doesn't apply over here (see the less carefully crafted version of your statement/the sibling comment).

That said: What happens if you _have_ a credit card that backs the room, but not the rest of the expenses? I usually travel with a CC (from my employer) backing the room. I never pay my room myself. That said, the hotel isn't allowed to charge minibar/massage/champagne at 3am by room service on the company card - and has no reliable information about me [1].

1: Yes, obviously it's rather dumb to run off with a TV if my company reserved the room or something. But again, as stated elsewhere in this thread: I've seen a number of people getting away with minibar-theft, very easily.

> That said, the hotel isn't allowed to charge minibar/massage/champagne at 3am by room service on the company card

This is the part that nobody understands. This isn't how things would work in the US (and many other countries). And how is this enforced?

Replying here, since HN likes me to calm down or something and hides the direct reply link.

First of all: Thanks a lot for taking me somewhat serious. :)

This is enforced by the letter of my company that states "Our Employee is staying in your hotel. We will cover his room, breakfast, wifi, parking. Please charge the following CC". Everything else is my business. If I eat at the hotel's restaurant I can charge that to my room. When I check out, I have to pay up for the things that aren't cleared for the CC - i.e. still open.

Even if I steal from the hotel and run off with the couch in this room: The company specifically offered their CC for a number of services, paying for me stealing furniture isn't part of that agreement. If I break something they cannot charge the company CC (but at a certain amount will certainly ask my company, which is on file and well-known, to relay a bill to me).

Just having a CC number is not enough to charge it with random things.

Just for reference: In the US, the hotel wants a credit card on file for "incidentals". When you check out, you can tell the hotel how you're going to pay for each bit, and put the porn/minibar/massage on your own CC. But if you skip out, it goes on the card on file. (Is it possible to check into a hotel without a CC on file? You may have to put down a cash deposit or something, I don't know, I've never tried it.)

The hotels would not be interested in enforcing company policy so if you brought them a letter they would probably laugh at you. And your company enforces their "no porn/minibar/massage" policy by auditing the bill--if it's more than they expected, you could be asked for the itemized receipt.

Also, the system seems pretty hackable--forging a letter from a company that says "we will cover everything" seems easy. Of course the company could always audit the bills but once they're doing that why even bother with the letter?

> Just having a CC number is not enough to charge it with random things.

It pretty much is in this country.

Replying again as a sibling, because it's 1:30 am and .. I don't care about waiting 10-15min for the reply button. ;-)

Thanks a lot for the clarification. As I said: I didn't have a CC for most of my life and had to trouble to check into a hotel. Sometimes a cash deposit was indeed required, but that was unusual (and mostly in seedy/grimey/ugly kind of places).

I think a big misunderstanding is the 'company CC' here. There's just one. For the company. Not one for me, for the company. My company has a _single_ CC covering travel expenses (and god knows what). So someone (travel agency, customer, me, who ever) is booking a hotel. My company sends a polite letter to the hotel, stating that it would cover my stay (see above, limitations etc) and offers the CC details or - still quite often the case - asks even to receive the bill by mail.

The hotel has no CC that I gave it, ever. Not mine, not a CC that the company gave me (I .. don't have something like that, doubt that it exists in this company outside of maybe some people in the higher sales ranks and .. well .. maybe the US? No clue). The name on the CC used for these things is actually my CEO, last time I checked.

Hackable: Well, the whole thread is about abuse, but I think you're caught up in that misunderstanding: I'm not providing a CC and forge a letter that says 'Yeah, but please just charge the room'. I'd have to forge a letter that says 'Please charge the room to the following CC'..

That said.. Again: Often enough we ask for a bill. In that case we tell the hotel: "Please send the bill for the stay (room/breakfast...) to company name, street, city". Is that hackable? Probably. It's a protocol that wasn't designed to protect against abuse. Just as I am able to send you emails from president@whitehouse.gov as long as I'm able to find an open smtp relay. That doesn't mean that everyone or even a significant number of people does it..

Tip: you can reply immediately (without waiting for the reply link), by clicking on the "link" of the post you want to reply to.

In Australia they will charge anything unpaid that you use (minibar, room service, etc.) to the credit card you gave.

Often what happens here with corporate credit cards is that you have different cards for different people, even if they are coming out of the same account, and you can see all the transactions that each person made. So the company would ask questions when they see the extra charge.

The hotels will actually keep the card you paid with on file and charge you for the mini bar in a second transaction. I've had it happen quite a bit when I've used the mini bar but the items from the last night hadn't been accounted for in the bill as the cleaners will restock and note down what was taken from the mini bar each day.

Explained in sibling comments: Room, breakfast, wifi and parking is payed by the company. Minibar and everything else there is: Nope.

I go down to the reception, they look at the bill, ask me if I consumed something from the minibar ("Never!") and wave goodbye.

They are not authorized to charge the company card for drinks or whatnot. They _could_ try to localize me based on the information I provided or .. I don't know - sue me across countries or something.

Disclaimer: I buy cheap drinks (including non-alcoholic beverages) in shops outside of the hotels I stay in. I hate the concept of minibars except as a fridge for MY stuff (those vending machine style of minibars really annoy the hell out of me). But I still insist that here/around me this exploit would work just as fine as the (to get back to the subject of the thread) exploit of the cafe that started this thread. It's not difficult. There are little to no repercussions. You will most likely get away with it. And most people still won't do it.

If you've never tried taking something from the minibar, how do you know it wouldn't be successfully charged to the company card?

At what hotel, in the modern first world, do you not leave a credit card on file to be charged for exactly these kind of things?

Are you serious? Can you reread your question and not feel like a jerk?

I'm 34 and didn't even HAVE a credit card ~3 years ago. I still rarely use it. The world is so diverse and different...

A hotel that asks for my credit card in Europe has to live with the chance that I don't have one, period. Which isn't the case anymore (see above), but I _still_ don't leave a credit card, ever.

On top of that: For the minibar issue that _still_ makes no difference at all. Most of the exploits I've seen were connected to company trips. The room was payed by the company, backed by a credit card. The minibar .. wasn't.

I'm currently in a decent hotel in Bern (my favorite, tried probably "all there are" in this city over some years). They don't have my credit card.

So..

- Bern isn't part of the modern first world

- Novotel hotels don't know their business

- You win

I don't feel like a jerk, actually, for asking a reasonable question (especially since you indicate in other replies that the room is backed by a company credit card). Do you feel like a jerk for either your snarky responses or your complicity in small-time theft (unless you called out those who did abuse the minibar and not pay)?

If novotel isn't charging the company credit card for all incidentals after-the-fact, then yes, I think they're doing business foolishly in that regard. And it's hardly news that being dishonest can get you free things - so can shoplifting from the grocery, why not simplify your life and just do that if you want free cashews so badly?

- "At what hotel, in the modern first world"

=> egocentric world view. Ignoring the somewhat interesting discussion about what you consider the 'modern first world' this statement makes you a jerk. You replied to a post that said that I'm currently _in_ a hotel in Bern, CH. 'modern first world'?

- snarky responses: Except for the one to your post I don't think I wrote one today. I consider that one deserved.

- complicity: Granted. Good point. You are right and I certainly could (should?) have acted a number of times. Yes, that makes me a jerk as well, I guess.

- The hotel business: I .. don't believe you're qualified to judge the business, quite frankly. But neither am I.

What really makes me turn green and quite angry: You totally missed the whole point of this thread. You're so far off, it is not even funny. The article that this comment thread is connected to is about a very interesting and charming idea, about a cafe that charges you for time and nothing else. Someone posted a rather bland 'So what if I abuse that' comment and I said 'Well - that is totally not clever and you can already do that like .. everywhere.' and provided a couple of examples. Staying in a hotel tonight, for the rest of the week, I chose the examples that were closest to me at that time. Yes, the thread then began to focus a little bit too much on my examples, but your statement here ("And it's hardly news that being dishonest can get you free things - so can shoplifting from the grocery, why not simplify your life and just do that if you want free cashews so badly?") shows that you were totally unable to read before you commented. Your statement is - frankly - stupid.

Cafe in London charges for time. I like that. Someone says 'I can break it!'. I say 'Amazing, it is hardly news that being dishonest...' - oh wait, I didn't. I stated the very same thing, but didn't use your words and it wasn't a grocery it was a hotel.. But cool, you just stated what I posted directly below the top-level post while indirectly accusing me to take advantage of dishonest behavior at the same time ('if you want free cashews so badly'). I'd really, really suggest to start at the top again and read more carefully the next time.

And I'm allergic to cashews, you insensitive clod. :)

> A good number of hotels don't check your ID/your personal information.

Please do tell me where I can find (in the first world countries) a hotel that doesn't a) check your ID/personal information, and b) lets you pay by cash?