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>I don't understand the trend from these last years of trying to copy successful model by importing just the emergent part and ignoring all which is hidden.

It's not a recent trend. Frédéric Bastiat wrote about it in 1850 [1].

Humans have an easy time understanding that something is of human action and of human design (e.g., flipping a light switch turns the lights on), and at recognizing that something is neither of human action nor of human design (e.g., today's weather). We are particularly poor at recognizing things which are of human action but not of human design (e.g., the market).

Recognizing emergent phenomena (i.e., spontaneous order) takes training/practice (and our language, which emerged within the context of humans' poor grasp of emergent phenomena, isn't great at expressing it). Further, politicians are incentivized to treat every problem as if it is in the first category, to treat symptoms as causal knobs to turn (e.g., price controls), thus placing themselves in the role of designer. To admit otherwise is to admit the inefficacy of politics (or more accurately, the state) to "solve" the problem. And with negligible exception, people of every political stripe refuse to accept that truth.

[1] http://www.econlib.org/library/Bastiat/basEss1.html

That's also known as cargo cults.

As someone from the periphery of the eurozone I get the impression that France is like concentrated Eurojuice generally that embodies all of the vice (and many of the virtues) of europe generally.

Being from Germany, I want to add that in some (good and bad) ways, Germany is more like Europe than France.

1. Decentralized. Germany is 16 states yelling at each other, while France jumps when Paris calls.

2. Lots of high-tech, no Silicon Valley. There are _a lot_ of successful software companies in Germany, but most are set up like traditional companies, not startups. Also, they mostly serve pre-existing niches, such as the financial industry around Frankfurt. The same holds for Europe.

3. Unsexy. Yeah. While I don't actually care much about the public image of Germany, I am saddened that the European idea has lost its appeal and continues losing it. I mean, what could _possibly_ go wrong?

All in all, I'd say the hodge-podge muddle-through way of things you see in Europe comes more natural to Germany than France.

We're getting pretty abstract.

I think germany lent the eu its regulatory approach so its definitely got that in common. France's chaotic mix of abstract ideas (egality..), arsenal of widely divergent interpretations of them and populism is closer to the eu's politics.

Germans build roads to have road. The French build roads as an expression of some confusingly abstract political idea.

"Germans build roads to have road. The French build roads as an expression of some confusingly abstract political idea."

The common theme is always who is to be f*ed and pay the bill, the taxpayers, and who is to get the profit and benefits, the big, connected, private interests.

All true thoughts, although I am happier the "European idea" (which in your case I take to mean as a federated superstate, do correct me if I am wrong) would be replaced by a looser, EFTA type arrangement.

I mean, wouldn't that lead to more decentralization (and thus innovation, and competition, and yes, yelling at each other but that's how you get the best ideas, not "the center declares an idea and everyone else implements it")

As an added bonus, it's more democratic.

Yes, I'm one of those superstate people. I understand where you are coming from, but am much more pessimistic about the viability of a EFTA-type agreement. In fact, I'm almost convinced that the EU, as it is today, cannot survive if it is not further integrated.

Both these statements of mine hinge on my observation that the strength of a political entity can only be determined at a time of crisis. For instance, the internal economic imbalances of the EU will always make some countries overall net-winners and some net-losers with regards to trade balances. This will inevitably lead to crises.

The USA have just as much imbalance between their states as we have between our member states, but they have one thing that we don't: Federal redistribution. If you live in Alabama and recieve social aid, get farming subsidies or are employed by the military, that is paid for by the whole, not just by Alabama. So it doesn't matter if Alabama is bleeding money in all directions.

In the EU, this is not the case.

I would thus expect an EFTA-EU to fracture or implode when the economic interests of the "big" countries are not aligned for a prolonged period of time. Nobody wants to live as a net-loser in perpetuity.

Also, the EU actually has built-in decentralization! If you look at the contracts, there is ample mention of the "subsidiarity principle" and when you take a look at the legislation, it becomes clear that they actually mean it. There is even some grumbling from the highly-centralized EU states, such as France or Poland, about the increasing significance of the sub-national organizational structures (regions).

The democracy thing could be fixed, if the will was there. Assuming, hypothetically, that things continued to go the way they have gone for the last decades, the EU actually will become progressively more democratic. After all, the EU parliament only came into the power it currently has with the Lisbon treaty.

If the political will to unite Europe dissapears, the EU will collapse like a house of cards, for all the institutions and legal frameworks it has right now can't hold it together alone.

"I'm almost convinced that the EU, as it is today, cannot survive if it is not further integrated."

Small south eu country here. I totally agree with you. And you make good points showing that.

The only thing I disagree, is that I think eu is moving towards a less democratic way (if it survives). Not talking about the eu parliament, but about who it sides with in the economic crisis. It sides with big economic interests, which are at wrong, instead with the "eu idea" and people.

True, they haven't really helped much in the economic crisis but if I compare the European Parliament to our Bundestag here in Germany, I can tell you that things could be worse.

A lot.

Maybe you heared some things about how the German Bundesbank is using its position in the ECB governing council to push its hard-Euro no-default there-is-no-problem stance. The Bundestag is a Parliament in which three quarter of representatives believe every word (well most words) that the Bundesbank says.

So the European Parliament is not that bad by comparison.

No, I didn't know that. Thanks for the info. ..imo, hard euro with no common budget/redistribution/stronger integration, is the death of eu. ..Btw, given what you said, and your local knowledge, do you think it's possible that germany is positioning itself for a possible end of the euro, and return to the deutschmark? Both in a "general feeling" and in more direct talking about that?

Absolutely not. It is important to understand that, even though it might seem different from the outside, the German political elite believes they are doing "the right thing". The problem is that, even though evidence to the contrary is mounting, they are intellectually invested in what they advocate so much now that a change of course has to be forced on them.

Nobody here (except some far-right fringe people) is talking of a return to the D-Mark and I'd even say that no government would survive it. If things got so bad that the EU takes serious damage (for instance abolishing the Euro) and it was obvious that Merkel and her deputies were responsible, they would be kicked out of office.

Here is why: If I may generalize about "the Germans" again, you must understand that our history is burned into our memory, not only because we repeatedly visit it in school, but also because nobody's family was left untouched by the war, the other war and the guilt.

Most people here see the unification of Europe as the only possible way to "break the spell" of perpetual war. And yes, the primary concern is still war, not economics or free trade or all that other stuff growing on top.

Consider this: While it is perfectly possible that a handfull of equally-sized states can coexist peacefully with each other for quite some time, the moment that there is a war, there will always be a next war. I mean 1971 gives us 1914 gives us 1939 and then bam! Irrevocably wedded to France, peace for 70 years. This is how the EU is seen here.

Even if you might find it unlikely that the quasi-demilitarized Germany of today would participate or even start a war, look at what's going on in Hungary. That shit could eventually boil over and start igniting if the EU doesn't get its act together.

And even there we have the perpetual war machine! The current problems of Hungary are largely entangled with how Hungary was partitioned up after ... WWI.

EDIT: I might add that I personally am a somewhat extreme adherent of "the European Idea". However, my descirption of how the EU is percieved as the guarantee for peace does hold for the general population. Interesingly, most young people don't even realize how fragile (and young!) the EU still is.

"3. Unsexy. Yeah. While I don't actually care much about the public image of Germany, I am saddened that the European idea has lost its appeal and continues losing it. I mean, what could _possibly_ go wrong?"

Coming from a small financial crisis stricken country at the periphery of europe, I would like to tell you this:

There is no "germany". And there is no "those lazy leaches". You have swallowed the bait full. You, are not "germany". And I am not "whatever". Generalizations are the root of all hiding. Your interests are not the same as deutsche bank's interests. Mine interests, are not the same as the corrupted (among others, by german interests) local politicians.

They say "germany" to make you think you are one. They say the "lazy" to give you an external enemy. Creating external enemies, is perfect for hiding your industries' and bankers' fing you as well as me. If you live/work in germany, in general, your salary is artificially lowered, to f you, and indebt other countries, to serve the top industrialists and bankers. You pay for the debt, and then you and me pay again for the payment.

I think you overinterpreted what I wrote there. In fact, I generally do not feel very German at all. Having lived and travelled all over Europe and speaking a few languages, I noticed a few years ago that those people from Berlin or Hamburg or Munich are as similar or dissimilar to me as those from Madrid or Vienna or Coventry or Rome or Porto.

Just recently I wrote a comment in a German blog where I advocated the removal of the "Germany" layer because it complicates copyright so much. Seriously, my glorious Hessen and above that: Europe!

From the outside we here in Germany seem so homogeneous, but there are a lot of cultural differences within Germany. And believe me, those Berliners can get to your nerves...

This also reminds me of a little anecdote: When I was in Spain with ERASMUS, I went around with a lot of Italian students. Whenever we came across a Deutsche Bank logo, I pointed it out and said "German Mafia". Many laughs were had.

I am not sure why you're saying that the Sophia Antipolis tech area is an attempt to build a "Silicon Valley" - It's mostly big companies there and there's no incentive to build your startup there.

It's quite huge - around 1500 companies with a lot of R&D labs.

It was not built to mimic SV. And no one claims that except maybe some rare schools/companies brochures that want to sell the place to students/young engineers.

> The current party detaining majority is the Socialist Party (PS) so the idea that innovation comes from the state and individual action is just a burden

That's completely inaccurate... There's a huge effort right now to boost innovation in France by the current government - by Fleur Pellerin, through grants for private companies in tech and many other things.

Look at all those individuals the french government promotes at the CES ... http://blogs.afii.fr/en/2014/01/france-makes-waves-at-ces-20... - it does not look like a burden to the government :)

> It's quite huge - around 1500 companies with a lot of R&D labs.

Actually, that might be what's needed. Historically, many of the Silicon Valley successes have been started by engineers leaving an established company to work on their own ideas (example: Intel), not necessarily by young people starting from scratch.

> It's mostly big companies there and there's no incentive to build your startup there.

SV started around the large military research facilities, and the semiconductor companies. Some startups (e.g. HP) came fairly early, but the large startup boom in the area happened after there was an established large concentration of technology people working for large stablished companies.

> The current party detaining majority is the Socialist Party (PS) so the idea that innovation comes from the state and individual action is just a burden might be due to this situation

Could you possibly be more cliché ? You might want to stop drinking the kool-aid.

maybe read until the end of the sentence?

Not only do I disagree that this is how people in France think overall (nor even a majority of the government present or past), but I also believe the asphyxic bureaucracy we suffer at the moment in France is neither an effect or a cause of the ideology you describe, even if it happened to be true.

We have the same amount of useless paper filling for everything including claiming social services, most other aspect of our reglementation that have nothing to do with creating a company are also suffering from that maze effect.

What we need is a cleanup of our laws and rules, our parliamentaries seem to feel like they need to add their own little law on top of it every couple of month, but they never clean the mess.

I am very well aware of the huge amount of paperwork we need to do anything in France, but it does not stops someone motivated enough to go through it. I wanted to highlight that even after having started your company successfully, you won't get very far. Of course, the complexity of the bureaucracy is a deep-rooted problem and I am quite pessimistic on the probability that such a clean-up will be done (when remembering the previous attempts).