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Comment by Nursie | Hacker News Reader

I'm not characterising their experience for them, it's far too variable and subjective to do that. I also didn't use the phrase "The LSD Experience" so I'm not sure why you felt the need to quote that.

What I will say is that some people seem to come back from it convinced that acid will change the face of humanity and society in some sort of miraculous way. But when pressed they can't say how. I don't think it's wrong to combine this with the fact that LSD can cause feelings of the profound over the most mundane or nonsensical things and come to the conclusion that they're probably off on one...

As I said - do you need acid to see the problems in our human society?

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> As I said - do you need acid to see the problems in our human society?

You are on a red herring streak :)

You do not need acid to see the problems within human society. But acid helps when it comes to seeing the problems within yourself, and giving you motivation to fix them.

The transformative potential of acid on society can be expressed in statistical terms. If a sufficiently large number of people were to embark on a course of self improvement and personal evolution towards humanistic and compassionate values, this phenomenon would bring about societal change.

What sort of changes?

Why do you think LSD would necessarily bring about more humanistic or compassionate values?

While some people do seem to be less of an asshole after doing LSD, I've seen some very hate filled and bigoted people remain convicted of their prejudice even after using multiple times.

They're probably not doing high enough doses and/or a combination of the following:

Using LSD with intentions to not be bigoted, prejudice, etc.

Taking LSD with the intention to introspect, experience spirituality, etc

Taking lots of medium dose LSD over time (years, decades) till the character of the experience gradually evolves for them in such a way as to reduce bigotry and prejudice

When people say LSD can have profound effects on people what often gets left out is that one may need to take it more frequently and in higher doses than most recreational users tend to do. Intentions matter, too.

You seem particularly motivated to discount the awakening effects of LSD. I never mentioned seeing problems in society, so as far as I'm concerned that's a strawman.

Are people wrong to feel profundity in the mundane? Is there another way to interpret the belief that LSD or access to altered states could change society?

I have no evidence such awakenings exist, and nobody can ever really define what they mean by them. What do you mean, exactly?

Nobody is wrong to feel profundity in the mundane, but LSD can have you feeling a profound connection to a piece of cheese, or suddenly realising that all humanity's problems would go away if we just wore more purple.

As for the problems with society, it very relevant to people who talk about awakenings and how/why the legislators and policy makers (to quote the post I originally replied to) would be somehow afraid of these awakenings.

It seems like magical thinking. And as nobody has been able to actually explain what they mean, that's the conclusion I've come to.

You're still doing it. You're spouting inanity you contrived out of your own head, and feigning to attribute that inanity to typical LSD use.

But do keep promoting your conclusion - I'm sure there's some important insight there.

>> You're still doing it. You're spouting inanity you contrived out of your own head, and feigning to attribute that inanity to typical LSD use.

I may as well say the same to you, having started by misquoting me and then failed to answer any questions.

>> But do keep promoting your conclusion - I'm sure there's some important insight there.

My conclusion is there's no evidence that widespread use of LSD would change much or result in major changes to society. Do you have any evidence or are you just spouting shit too?

"Nobody is wrong to feel profundity in the mundane, but LSD can have you feeling a profound connection to a piece of cheese, or suddenly realising that all humanity's problems would go away if we just wore more purple."

I can't speak to your experience on LSD, but for me LSD removes boundaries in my mind and provokes me to realize that we humans are way more similar than we are different. In fact, the same goes for other animals on this planet. LSD makes me realizes things that I technically already knew, but didn't feel.

How does LSD affect you?

>> How does LSD affect you?

In a vast variety of different ways depending on dose, set and setting etc.

I understand your realisation, I do. But I'm not seeing how it would be world-changing if more people were allowed to take it because I know people whose LSD experience was (repeatedly) "sit in the corner of a nightclub with wide eyes and a grin".

Does it happen that you've ever read Flatland?

"LSD can have you feeling a profound connection to a piece of cheese"

This is what usually happens to my friends who drop acid. I'll always remember my best friend's deep connection to some lamp post, and how he "figured out why that lamp post is there, mans. I know it now". I'm sure this isn't what happens to everyone. What I think happens is that true profundity happens to people who are sort of on a good path to find it already.

Here. I will articulate it.

Each one of us is an unbroken chain of physical interactions since the beginning. There is no universe without conscious subjective experience; there is no conscious subjective experience without the universe. Life--conscious, experiential, intelligent life--is fundamentally intertwined with existence and you cannot have one without the other. The universe as a fundamental process is one that yields life; it is impossible to conceive of a universe where life does not exist, for without the experience, there is no universe.

We are, fundamentally, the universe experiencing itself subjectively from billions and billions of different facets and points of view.

More succinctly, we are all one.

Awesome.

Now, how does that change anything?

chop wood, carry water.

it doesn't change how things are; it changes how you look at it, and that makes a difference. it is a personal experience that changes how you let yourself be affected by minor hurts and problems, and lets you immerse yourself in the world and more deeply enjoy the things you take pleasure from.

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