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Comment by ghoul2 | Hacker News Reader

""" Ben Wizner <snip> remarked at SXSW that problems with the no-fly list aren't going away; the world we're facing will look more like Kafka than Orwell. <snip>

Wizner said:

And I worry about a world—not a world that looks like Orwell. """

I have noticed a tendency for US-media to use "world" for things which are essentially US-only phenomena. (I have never heard of the equivalent of a no-fly list outside the US and UK). The same statement, but referring to "USA" instead of world, would carry more impact to US citizens reading it, might make (some of) them work on the cause. But saying "World" depersonalizes the problem, and distances all readers from it.

I have not seen this "USA is the World" tendency from media in other countries. Seems unique to US media.

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For many US citizens, the country is their 'world.' They may never leave the country in their lifetime. On the other hand, it's much more difficult to call your own country 'the world' when you border three other countries in such a way that you can live in one, go our clubbing all night in the other, and then have breakfast the next morning in the third...

Exactly. Looking at it from both worlds, I don't think a European adequately understands how large a country like the US (or Canada for that matter) is. Likewise an American would never understand the smallness of being, say, a Luxembourg citizen and travelling to France within a day. Totally different worlds.

I always tell people to travel outside their comfort zones purely for this insight. One you experience how another culture lives it is hard to be close minded again.

I live in Brazil, a continent-sized country just like the US and I don't see this phenomenon here.

I don't think this is the problem.

The phenomenon only presents at 9 million km^2 and above. ;)

I live in Canada. A significantly bigger country than the US.

I don't think of Canada as being the world, nor does anyone I know.

I think it actually has to do with the American media. It used to be worse. I remember seeing US news programs (we get them here in Canada) reporting on the weather, and they only showed the US. It was kind of funny, it was like weather patterns were dropping in from a void "up north".

> Likewise an American would never understand the smallness of being, say, a Luxembourg citizen and travelling to France within a day.

Luxembourg even borders France, so you could "travel to France" in five minutes by just stepping over the border. Just like you could "travel to Mexico" .. or maybe that's a bit harder than five minutes because of border controls, maybe Canada? No?

And, Luxembourg is so tiny, if you'd spend a day travelling "from Luxembourg to France", I'd argue you actually spent max half an hour travelling "from Luxembourg to France", and the most part of your day travelling "in France" ;-)

Your point stands, of course.

For US citizens (the kind you describe, that will never go out) the world contains also lot of "evil countries", China, Mexico, ... Those countries are constantly on TV, so even if he cannot point at them on a map, they exist as part of "the world"

Making it a world issue may dilute the problem in their eyes and make it look like a world affair instead of a purely local policy.

The US is at war against drug, terror, ... The US is under the threats of the axis of evil. The US citizen live in a world (not-US) where he is denied flying, where his mails are spied, ... That's the common TV language. Seeing how little it takes to influence people thinking (eg: global warming is mocked because its name suggest temperature will be rising globally), this constant bashing must have an effect in the apathy of the US citizen against the slow erosion of their rights.

It's more than that though. Even if you never leave your country, be it the UK, Brasil, Canada, South Africa, Israel, or Japan, you're going to experience foreign media; American TV shows, movies, music, books, video games are everywhere.

If you're in the US, however, you generally only experience US media; in several cases, US remakes of popular foreign shows (House of Cards, The Office, etc.). A lot of foreign media you don't necessarily notice is foreign, and books, movie posters, and video game covers are modified for US audiences (some would claim 'dumbed down').

Americans only see America through the eyes of America, and the rest of the world through the eyes of America; for example, in Taken, Armenians are shown as kidnapping slave-trading murderers, after all our poor innocent white girls, and the French police chief is shown as a corrupt, indifferent traitor.

Meanwhile, the rest of the world sees the US and the rest of the world through American eyes, but they also see both through the eyes of their own media, which provides them with more of a balanced view, and lets (forces?) them to make at least some of their own decisions.

Might be. But I see some other phenomenon: The World is adopting more and more the bad things in the US but never the good things of it.

That one worries me.

Fortunately, so far, most countries have not adopted much of the American madness. With the exception of the UK, internal flights are a pleasure - simple metal detector, simple bag scan, and you're on your way. The US approach by the TSA gets more onerous every year and accomplishes nothing.

Personally I think this is down to a certain inexperience the US has with terrorism. We still believe the world can be "made safe". We believe that -reacting- to terrorism is warranted. (and of course everything is now a " terrorist act")

Most other countries have lived with terrorist behavior for decades or longer. They learned that it is precisely by not reacting that you fight back. They learned that no, the world is not safe, and you can get killed in a car accident today, or struck by lightning tomorrow, or indeed just by riding a bicycle. (more people die on bicycles than by terrorism - and more people in the US every MONTH die in cars than were killed on Sept 11.)

The US currently has a teenager response to terrorism, and it will take years before they mature to where the rest of the world is already at. Until then, just like with any teenager, you have to let it work its course. The experience of others is seldom learned -experience doesn't work like that.

I of course did not only mean the no-fly list. In Germany they also adopted or at least politics are trying to adopt some stupid ideas about terrorism. For example storing telephone connection meta-data. It is a widespread knowledge, that such a thing does not help in preventing terrorism, but they try and try to force it through parliament.

Also in other areas, the US is always the biggest example. For example the managers in Germany always compare themselves in regards to the salaries of US managers. But when it goes to liability, they do no comparison (in Germany, you can as a manager do nearly anything and are not liable for anything). Also of course they do not compare their salaries to those of Japan -- because in Japan, the corporations are bigger and the managers get still much less.

I guess, when the meta-data storage is threw legislation, they could come up with Germany's own no-fly list ...

Source for the widespread knowledge?

Probably not widespread knowledge, but here you go:

http://www.heise.de/tp/news/Vorratsdatenspeicherung-zur-Terr...

I don't know what "most countries" you're on about. I flew around Europe. I had spoons, fruits, water confiscated and thrown out by whatever the European equivalent of TSA is.

In the Asias, I had an umbrella confiscated. I had prescription drugs threatened to be taken away until I paid the necessary bribe.

I see strong indications of the export of USA bureaucracy and "way of life" around the world. It's a very convenient excuse for tyrants everywhere. "The USA is doing it, and they're very successful!"

Not just the media. I remember someone explaining the meaning of The World Series to me as a kid. I don't think the explanation helped me much.

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