Comment by soapdog | Hacker News Reader

Comment by soapdog | Hacker News Reader

Don't go with ZTE Open, its the worst phone. Best advise wait for the new models that are being released this year. If you don't want to wait you can get the following models:

* Geeksphone Revolution - the most powerful phone but its running on a x86 architecture and the port is done by Geeksphone, even though they released three new updates already there are still bugs.

* Alcatel One Touch Fire - great phone and is unlockable with some exploits. Better than ZTE Open IMHO.

* LG Fireweb - better specs than the ZTE Open and Alcated OT Fire but its as locked as fort knox regarding the bootloader. You will not be able to flash your own device. If that is not a problem then its a great device.

* Geeksphone Peak - the second highest spec. Larger resolution than most retail devices and CPU but I think the battery drains too fast, I'd rather use Revolution.

* Geeksphone Keon - The standard developer phone for Firefox OS. Wonderful tiny device, the screen sux but the specs are better than the ZTE, Alcatel and LG.

My recommendation is to wait for the flame:

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/Firefox_OS/Developer_pho...

I have all the phones above. My daily driver is the Geeksphone Revolution and I've used the Fireweb and Alcatel daily before that. The Peak would drain too fast.

Disclaimer: I am a Mozilla Rep and member of the Brazilian Firefox OS Launch Team. If you're interested in developing apps for Firefox OS I've authored a free and open book about it available at:

http://leanpub.com/quickguidefirefoxosdevelopment/

I will hang around this topic if anyone has questions.

;-)

I would advise against the Geeksphones unless you're looking to use them as purely test devices. They were intended as developer phones, not for consumers. They also have some really frustrating issues:

* Both devices still run (AFAIK) FXOS 1.1, which is really very out-of-date. You can flash them with updated versions from Mozilla, but you have to do it yourself. OTA updates will probably not happen. New devices still ship with old versions of FXOS.

* The Peak has a very large screen, which was not something that was fully supported when it first shipped. Some of this has been sorted out after updates, but I occasionally still see people frustrated by poorly scaled interfaces.

* The Peak suffers from a bulging battery issue. The manufacturer has assured everyone that the issue is within tolerances, but it made me uneasy. The battery bulges enough that the back cover of the phone does not sit properly.

* Both devices suffer from charging issues. If you completely drain the batteries, it becomes nearly impossible to charge them. As soon as you plug the device in, it tries to boot, which saps whatever charge it just received. The device shuts itself off, then tries to boot again as soon as it has the tiniest amount of charge. If this happens, your device is basically useless.

Hey Basta! I somewhat disagree.

* Maybe out of the box, but geeksphone does make really nice install scripts and has available every version of FxOS available on their site. [0] Maybe directions about turning on remote debugging first on the device would help, but I'd say they've made it pretty easy. A README would be nice, but they even ship OS specific builds of adb and fastboot in the zips.

* Launching the first 3 devices with the screen resolution of 320x480 and not supporting others in the simulator certainly contribute authors to only testing on one resolution. I myself was guilty with the calculator. But I'm not sure that this is a reason not to get the phone. Maybe you're referring to bugs in some CSS calculations? Do you have any bug numbers off the top of your head?

* Yes, I raised an emergency warning when I saw this, but Geeksphone themselves said that was a safety precaution and was expected. It was due to the battery over heating. I only saw this occur on a peak that we were stress testing WebRTC builds on.

* No. It will do stupid reboot cycles when the battery is basically empty like you said, but that doesn't make the device useless. Letting it sit and charge does the trick.

Hope all is well, buddy.

[0] http://downloads.geeksphone.com/

I read somewhere that Flame is supposed to be 170 EUR. Is that true?

Because if so, that's not a good thing. That's the same price as Motorola Moto G (which has 720p IPS display and quadcore) for phone with 800x400 display (probably TN) dualcore. Other specs seem to be pretty similar, but still, it makes Flame pretty expensive.

I know this is because of the economies of scale, but it still makes FxOS look bad. ZTE Open is terrible, but at least it's pretty cheap.

From the link : retailing at US$170, global shipping included

Any idea where I'd follow the Flame release announcement? The Mozilla site [1] states 'Available for pre-order soon' and lists 'late April' as release date..

The manufacturer's site [2] seems - well - useless.

Any mailing lists/twitter accounts or whatever that I can follow to get my hands on that thing as soon as it comes out?

1: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/Firefox_OS/Developer_pho... 2: http://www.t2mobile.com/

We just started handing them to core devs (and yes it's a really nice device). Once we'll have confidence that it's stable enough we will roll out to more people internally at Mozilla and then externally.

Just a few weeks away!

Hey. That sounds amazing and I appreciate the answer. But ..

1) You state 'We just started handing them out', implying you are part of the process? Would you mind sharing your connection? Your profile doesn't say a lot. Are you with Mozilla?

2) So, my core question is still open: You hope for a release just a few weeks away? Where would I read about that, how would I keep tabs on this device's official launch (or open pre-order)? If you're deeply involved (as it seems, see 1), got any pointers for relevant "You can now order the device here" news channels?

1) I'm a mozilla employee working on Firefox OS. So, I have a pretty direct connection to what's happening there ;)

2) There will be an official announcement on Mozilla's blog for sure (https://blog.mozilla.org/).

ZTE Open is not bad with newer versions. 1.0 is certainly rough, but it gets better with each new release.

And how do you get these new versions? ZTE won't release them, at least here. Root my phone and compile from source? Thanks, I'll pass.

I agree that having to root the phone, and manufacturers making their builds public is an issue. Mozilla can't quite control this, as they can't legally redistribute proprietary and closed source binary blobs that are the hardware drivers. But I've brought it up numerous times to the legal dept that the requirements for both should be part of the branding requirements.

Rooting is a PITA, granted, but you shouldn't be afraid of compiling from source, ever, especially if you're reading "hacker" news.

thanks for the link (and phones review :) )

If you are a Mozilla rep, you probably want to delete this post or at least remove your overtly critical language. Hardware manufactures invest a lot of resources trying to build for your platform. They are your customer. Insulting them is not good business..

His post is one of the most useful post I have read on HN for months.

I don't have the slightest sympathy for the manufacturers who face difficulties when building phones. I do have sympathy for people who buy crap hardware (because that's all that exists) and suffer because of it. And I am especially annoyed when I buy crap hardware because all the reviews were fake, like you suggest them to be.

>(because that's all that exists)

Well, that's not true. Neo Freerunner and GTA04 both exist and Neo900 will soon join them. None of them needs any bizzare "rooting" and if you want to port some OS to them you're ready to go. All you need to have that's not openly available to everyone for free is a device.

Of course they all have some flaws, but as a consumer you do have a choice.

Also, GTA04 and Neo900 should both be perfectly capable to run Firefox OS.

Hardware vendors also write some of the worst firmware, and since next to none of them publish their source code, it can't be fixed by the community. Most people I talk to suspect systemic IP infringement at the hardware/software interface, which would be a good reason for source code obfuscation.

Users are the customer. You can keep the hardware companies as happy as you like by not offending any of them, but by being honest to the actual users about the strengths and weaknesses of various phones, you are far more likely to build a long term base.

edit - and any hardware companies you work with who are worth their salt will understand this and take any criticisms on board. The end-users will be far less polite.

Lol, down voted. Weak, HN, very very weak. This guy could lose his position over that post and I was just trying to help him (maybe it's just a volunteer thing, though).

If he was at our company, he would have been fired in a heartbeat. Publicly insulting partners like that? Yikes..

FWIW Mozilla reps generally aren't employees, but are part of the wider Mozilla community [1].

[1] https://reps.mozilla.org/

Your company sounds doomed.

I am very thankful not to be in a company where employees don't have a voice.

I am not a Mozilla employee, I am a Mozilla rep. Its a volunteer position. Mozilla is this strange thing where 800 employees and 100.000 volunteers (reps or not) work togheter for the benefit of you. We're only able to work for the betterment of the internet if we're able to voice our concerns, opinions and judgement.

As for insulting partners, I've insulted no one. I think the partners are wonderful trailblazers but I wish the phones were open. All retail phones ship with Firefox OS 1.1 and they could all be running 1.2 or 1.3 by now if the partners did an OTA or if the phones were unlocked. Knowing this and talking about this is honesty, a very valuable thing for partnerships.

Lets agree to disagree. The hardware manufacturers are our partners and so are the carriers but if it ever comes to a time where we can't be honest and speak our opinions than we're no longer Mozilla.

The OP asked for opinions on phones. I have all of them so I thought I was on a specially good position to give mine.

And from where we stand, business is keeping the internet free and open made by users and for users where everyone can be a creator and not only a consumer. This type of business begins when we're able in engage in healthy conversations such as this one. ;-)

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