Comment by stephenr | Hacker News Reader

Comment by stephenr | Hacker News Reader

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> I did write "You won’t legally be allowed to work in the countries you travel to..."

In context, you are clearly talking about working for local companies. In countries like Thailand, it's illegal to work in any way (even volunteering falls into this category in Thailand) without a valid visa and work permit.

> have never been clear in Thailand

That's disingenuous at best. Its never been "ideal" but it's always been clear - if you want to work, you need a visa + work permit. That people working "online" for foreign entities have largely slipped through the cracks is irrelevant. Speeding isn't legal or "unclear" just because you don't get caught every time.

> this week the Thai government decided it's OK for digital nomads to work in Thailand:

Since i first started looking at the options for working in Thailand about 2 1/2 years ago (and moved here ~ 2 years ago) I've read numerous articles about these announcements from provincial immigration staff, only to have them either "clarified" to mean something different, or outright denied as being incorrect.

You are right that any kind of work in Thailand, including volunteer work, requires a work permit. But you are leaving out the big gray area in Thailand between the law and what actually happens. That gray area is small or non-existent in America or Europe.

In Thailand pornography and sex toys and prostitution are all illegal, but visibly sold on the main tourist streets. In Thailand driving without a license will get you a small fine ($6 to $12), and a receipt to show you paid in case you get stopped in the next 24 hours. In Thailand there are numerous digital nomad get-togethers and communities and co-working spaces full of farang with their laptops, operating openly. The many language schools routinely employ part-time teachers who don't have proper visas and work permits.

As an American I've been trained to obey the law, and I understand that breaking the law leads to well-defined penalties (unless I'm a banker or a politician). Thais, on the other hand, treat the law (and road markings) as suggestions, with penalties that have flexible and often on-the-spot enforcement denominated in baht. So while you are right about what the law says, the reality of how it's interpreted and enforced are more important in Thailand.

I'm well aware that many laws are not enforced well if at all in Thailand, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

Generalising about 70 million people as if they are all the same isn't a great way to identify as anything other than a middle-aged farrang who wants a young brown girl(s) in his bed.

Wow, great ad hominem attack. I didn't say the laws don't exist -- I acknowledged that. How you went from my observations of life in Thailand to calling me a sexpat says something about you. That wasn't part of anything I wrote.

If anyone wants to read more of this kind of thing there's an entire forum for know-it-all expat jerks called ThaiVisa.com.

Maybe I'm generalizing about the Thai attitude about the law, but you can observe it every day all over Thailand. It's no more a generalization than saying Thais like spicy food.

> I didn't say the laws don't exist

No but you suggested that they can be treated as non existent because of lax enforcement/punishment, and then go on to complain about other people (apparently an entire country at that!) not following them - if you don't agree the laws should be followed, why are you complaining about other people not following them?

> How you went from my observations of life in Thailand to calling me a sexpat says something about you

It's generally sexpats who come to Thailand for some "brown strange", make no effort to learn anything about the culture or the people, and make sweeping generalisations, exactly like you have done.

> Maybe I'm generalizing about the Thai attitude about the law, but you can observe it every day all over Thailand. It's no more a generalization than saying Thais like spicy food.

The irony here is at level: ridiculous. Have you ever met any Thai people and actually spoken to them?

Let me make it crystal clear in case you can't work it out:

Not every Thai is a bad driver

Not every Thai flaunts laws/rules

Not every Thai enjoys or can even eat spicy food

Not every Thai is just a poor brown girl/boy waiting for a "rich" white prince to make her/his life better.

I give up. You win. I should have disclosed that I have never met a Thai person or spoken to one since I've been living here. And I've never driven here or seen any Thais driving. I've never seen any Thais flaunt the laws, or eat spicy food. In fact the only people I've met in Thailand have been drunk middle-aged men on Soi Cowboy looking for "brown strange."

Also I can't read or "work out" what smarter and better-informed people like stephenr mean, I need it spelled out, in English. I am not equipped to understand or respond to the close reading and careful parsing of language stephenr has demonstrated.

Actually I've never even been to Thailand, I made everything up. Kudos to stephenr for deducing so much from my comments and exposing me, calling me out on my delusions, and setting the record straight.

> I've never driven here or seen any Thais driving. I've never seen any Thais flaunt the laws, or eat spicy food.

You didn't claim to have "seen this". You claimed "everyone does it". This would be like me claiming all americans insist on cheese with every meal and get confused between Austria and Australia.

> Also I can't read or "work out" what smarter and better-informed people like stephenr mean, I need it spelled out, in English

I'm commenting on your posts, and my own observations of life in Thailand. Several times you've made broad generalisations about various topics in Thailand, all of which are demonstrably false.

When I called you on said generalisation, you proceeded to make ANOTHER generalisation. How do you expect people to react to that?

> In Thailand pornography and sex toys and prostitution are all illegal, but visibly sold on the main tourist streets. In Thailand driving without a license will get you a small fine ($6 to $12)

It's different. You've just listed laws that the Thais do not enforce. The no-work-permit for a foreigner is a law that would be enforced should you be caught.

So lets say you are a manager for a normal 9-to-5 company, and head to Thailand on vacation. If you receive a phone call from work would that technically be illegal since you are doing your paid work from a thai beach?

I get that you are trying to push the example to the extreme, but it's hardly the same situation.

For a more realistic example: it is perfectly legal for a foreigner to come to Thailand on a business visa (without a work permit) for the purpose of meetings. There is even a specific 3 year (vs regular 1 year) business visa that is specifically designed for this situation (it cannot be used to get a work permit).

Wouldn't Thailand lose out by not allowing digital nomads to work there? What they contribute to the economy by staying there they would otherwise be forced to spend in a different country. So what is the law saying that you're not allowed to perform any "work" while you're in the country supposed to achieve, assuming you are not taking any jobs from locals?

The reality is more likely simply history - the Thai immigration system hasn't caught up with the 21st century.

The "traditional" situation is evident in other things too - for a marriage visa, there is a means test ($/month income or $$ in a bank account) - the amount required is vastly more for foreign men (marrying thai women) than it is for women (marrying thai men).

In terms of a theoretical "this is intentional" answer - I don't know, because I don't actually know what the average "digital nomad" would spend large amounts of money on - I'm living basically as a resident, I haven't left the country in 9 months, we have a car, imported our dog, etc.

So in this case, what's wrong with breaking this law if it doesn't hurt anyone and is actually _good_ for the country's economy to do so?

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