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Comment by SloopJon | Hacker News Reader

Title should probably be changed from "We Don't Just Need More Women in Tech, We Need Fewer Assholes" to "A hilariously sad tale of gender bias."

(Not sure if I should put a spoiler alert or something.) The author of a popular series of books on preparing for technical interviews was upset that, after talking about code for an hour, people assume that she's a recruiter, rather than a programmer. I'll try not to make the mistake that the target of this post made by assuming too much about the content of that talk, but is it at all possible that the perspective of someone who writes books like that comes off as recruiterish?

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>Is it at all possible that the perspective of someone who writes books like that comes off as recruiterish?

This was my first thought as well. As soon as she identified herself, I immediately understood how someone could write her off as a recruiter, based entirely on her body of public works. There are many people in the world that will judge someone by the books they wrote and immediately have an image in their mind about the author. It would be hard to overcome this inclination that certain people have within the space of an hour and it doesn't help when someone is especially suspicious because of your gender (Obviously this is the not-ok part). I'm more apt to believe that Gayle Laakmann McDowell has a slightly skewed viewpoint of being taken as a recruiter more often than the average female engineer.

This is not to say that female engineers do not have legitimate concerns. I think its helpful to look at the specific facts of this situation to understand the frustration Gayle Laakmann McDowell experiences.

I actually went to college with Gayle - she was a TA* in one of my harder, more rigorous classes. I never got to know her personally, but I find it hard to believe that you can talk to her for an entire hour and not figure out that her knowledge and understanding are way beyond those of a recruiter, even a smart one. Says more about the listener, IMO.

Personal anecdote, take it for what it's worth.

*TA = teaching assistant, older students hand-picked by professors to conduct help sessions for the current year's crop, as well as grade homeworks/exams. I.e. you need to do well in a class to qualify.

Oh, I'm sure I get mistake for a recruiter more than the average female engineer. That's not really the point.

The point is that gender adds difficulty in establishing technical credibility.

A different female programmer might have trouble with a different aspect of this. For example, Chloe Alpert said how investor have trouble believing that she's the dev (https://twitter.com/chloealpert/status/509071535098052609) and how some other people were confused that she was the dev (https://twitter.com/chloealpert/status/509069378575695872).

She might have more trouble than other female devs because she's cofounded a business with a man. Does that mean that the whole gender doesn't matter? No.

In other words, my experience might be that people lump me in as a recruiter specifically. Someone else might be assumed to be the non-technical cofounder. Someone else might get assumed to be a marketer. Or a designer. Or whatever.

Point is - gender bias is real.

It is entirely possible that she spent an hour talking about code from the perspective of programming interviews. Were I to have heard such a perspective I might have assumed the talker was an expert in tech recruitment rather than a programmer/coder by trade. It wouldn't be a sign of disrespect, an expert in recruitment and interview techniques is hardly less worthy than an expert programmer.

The real question is If a male and a female talked about coding interviews for an hour, would the audience ascribe to them the same title, I suspect the answer is probably "no".

> Title should probably be changed from "We Don't Just Need More Women in Tech, We Need Fewer Ass holes" to "A hilariously sad tale of gender bias."

Yes, please. While I agree with the sentiment of the editorialised title, I think the original title should be reflected here.

It's true, women can be a source of gender bias as well. Many girls are turned away from computing by women who think of it as a guys' field. And beyond that, just looking at a woman at a tech conference and thinking "oh I wonder who she's here with" can happen to anyone. I can't find the anecdote now but it happened to a woman who had just given a speech on women in tech! It's a really hard, pervasive bias.

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