Did something stupid and am scared | Hacker News Reader

Did something stupid and am scared

Posting from a throwaway account for obvious reasons.

I've been trying freelancing and building my own software for the past year and it hasn't gone well. I've hardly earned any money and am going through cash and credit cards quickly.

So here's what I did that was stupid. I received a credit card application in the mail today and decided it couldn't hurt to put last years income in for my total income, even though this year I will be making half of it, mostly my wife's meager income. I put the LLC I freelance under as my employer. It didn't ask if I was self-employe or not. I submitted the application online and now I'm panicking and having second thoughts. I am terrified that I just committed fraud. I called to cancel and the application department was closed. Now I can't sleep and don't know what to do.

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Go to sleep. Practically speaking, you're at zero legal risk for exaggerating your income on a credit card application. Cancel it during business hours tomorrow. You don't need any reason more specific than "I decided to not go forward with the application. Please cancel it for me."

You can worry about improving the business, because a successfully executed freelancing business should more than pay the bills. We're in the best market since forever. But worry about that tomorrow.

Can you expand on "We're in the best market since forever."? Just interested

I'm not a lawyer and I can't promise you I'm right, but I'd be extremely surprised if anything happens to you worse than that your application gets rejected. You may have technically committed fraud, but if you don't actually benefit from it, no one is likely to care.

This won't be true anymore if you actually receive the card and use it.

But don't be scared; just cancel the application tomorrow morning.

The much larger stupid thing you're doing is racking up a lot of credit card debt. This will not be nearly as simple a problem to solve. You need to stop doing that now. I don't know much about your situation, but is there any chance you could get a day job to support you while you build your freelancing business?

The worst thing that might happen is that they give you the credit card.

The credit card company has no reason to believe that anything you told them was untrue. The worst they'll do is reject your application because they can't verify the information you gave them. They have no incentive to get you in legal trouble because (1) you don't have any of their money yet and (2) you're a potential customer. Calling them up in a panic would just be drawing attention to yourself. (I'm not saying that what you did was right or smart; I'm just saying that it's not likely you'll suffer any dire consequences.)

What you should really be terrified of is "going through cash and credit cards quickly". If you're financing your living expenses by borrowing against your credit cards (at a very hefty interest rate), you'll go bankrupt soon. If you can't make ends meet by freelancing, try looking for a full-time job. If you have the skills to build your own software you can probably get a job with a decent salary. You can continue working on your own projects in your spare time. Do you really want to risk you and your wife ending up broke and homeless?

[ IANAL ]

Assuming that you have in fact committed fraud, a fact which requires legal adjudication:

What have you defrauded the credit card company of ?

Currently, at worst, a small piece of plastic of slight value, and again assuming that there is a legal finding of fraud.

[ Per my 1040's since 1995, I am a philosopher ]

Your concerns seem more along the lines of having done something that the sort of person you strive to be would not do. That's not a legal issue, it's an ethical/moral dilemma.

Business is inherently amoral [ by which I do not mean immoral ]. Actions are either legal or illegal. The general assumption is that anything not explicitly prohibited is permitted. Money changes many things, including people's judgements: its fungiblity lets it serve as a proxy for the basic necessities of an individual's survival.

Credit card companies have very sophisticated means of assessing risk. These go well beyond self reported income, e.g. patterns of payment/non-payment are probably reliable actuarily.

In the end, the big issue ethically/morally is not if what you did was ok with the credit card company. The big issue is if what you did is ok with you.

Ethics/morals are about not doing what is legally permitted.

You basically did what the majority of Americans do. There is a difference between fraud and FRAUD.

Your story is the equivalent of wondering if you'll be prosecuted for grand theft for taking 2 samples at the grocery store instead of 1.

Don't sweat it. The credit card company will likely figure that out and just decline your application. Or, to your surprise it might be approved anyway.

More importantly though, get some stable income coming in, at least for a couple to a few months. It will give you some clarity to not have to think about things like this for a while. I certainly know how you feel. I imagine most freelancers/building a product on the side know how you feel.

    Or, to your surprise it might be approved anyway.

This is the likely outcome from your description. In which case you can cancel or not activate the card and you're at no legal risk.

Applications for things with false information are only a legal matter when it's government-related or you're using it.

You haven't done either.

pretty sure it's still considered bank fraud which is worse than fraud.

I think if this is causing you this much anxiety there are more significant issues than this credit card application.

Seriously; do you know how many people lie or exaggerate on financial documents when they're trying to get money?

I wouldn't worry too much. All they really want is for you to violate the introductory terms so they can charge you 30% interest.

If you're worried, just cancel it when you receive it.

Unless they specified a date, then putting your previous years full income seems a reasonable answer to the question.

In this case, I would do nothing and just see if they issue the card or not.

It's not like they have any means of knowing your income other than your reporting it... so they can't check it.

If would only seem to be fraud if you're doing this deliberately to mislead them and have no intention of repaying the loan.

Calm down. IANAL but AFAIK, you aren't liable until you activate your card (if your application goes through, that is).

Oh, you are soooo fucked dude. I can't believe you committed such a terrible crime, and then you come online and tell people about it. You're probably looking at 10 to 15 years minimum.

Do you have a valid reason to fuel his fearful state of mind without providing any insight in your comment?

c'mon, I can't believe people are taking his fear seriously. This is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read, thus I'm being sarcastic.

Please don't use nothing but sarcasm in a post.

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