I would however love to feel safe when being outside of my apartment, instead of wondering if one of these dozens of visibly infirm people I pass by on the way to anything is about to assault me or do something else completely unpredictable to me.
I would however love to feel safe when being outside of my apartment, instead of wondering if one of these dozens of visibly infirm people I pass by on the way to anything is about to assault me or do something else completely unpredictable to me.
Most violent crime is not committed by people with a mental illness.
While I appreciate the concern you show for the piss-poor inhumane brutal lack of treatment your country provides to those with a mental illness (despite spending more per capita on health) it'd be nice if you could do it without stigmatising mental ill-health.
> Right next to her is a hole in the wall punched by some other mentally infirm person that same day.
BadassFractal didn't witness that, but assumes it was done by someone with a mental health problem rather than someone who's just an angry arsehole.
> I would however love to feel safe when being outside of my apartment, instead of wondering if one of these dozens of visibly infirm people I pass by on the way to anything is about to assault me
This is directly linking mental ill health to violence, and it's just as abhorrent as linking violent crime to African Americans.
Those visibly infirm people are far more likely to be the victims, not perpetrators, of violence -- even if you remove self-inflicted violence.
[1] to property, not as far as I know to people.
EDIT: http://depts.washington.edu/mhreport/facts_violence.php
> - "Although studies suggest a link between mental illnesses and violence, the contribution of people with mental illnesses to overall rates of violence is small, and further, the magnitude of the relationship is greatly exaggerated in the minds of the general population (Institute of Medicine, 2006)."
> - "…the vast majority of people who are violent do not suffer from mental illnesses (American Psychiatric Association, 1994)."
> - "The absolute risk of violence among the mentally ill as a group is very small. . . only a small proportion of the violence in our society can be attributed to persons who are mentally ill (Mulvey, 1994)."
> -"People with psychiatric disabilities are far more likely to be victims than perpetrators of violent crime (Appleby, et al., 2001). People with severe mental illnesses, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder or psychosis, are 2 ½ times more likely to be attacked, raped or mugged than the general population (Hiday, et al.,1999)."
> The effects of stigma and discrimination are profound. The President’s New Freedom Commission on Mental Health found that, “Stigma leads others to avoid living, socializing, or working with, renting to, or employing people with mental disorders - especially severe disorders, such as schizophrenia. It leads to low self-esteem, isolation, and hopelessness. It deters the public from seeking and wanting to pay for care. Responding to stigma, people with mental health problems internalize public attitudes and become so embarrassed or ashamed that they often conceal symptoms and fail to seek treatment (New Freedom Commission, 2003).”
Rather than lecture on what not to do, what do you propose as steps towards resolving these problems?
Stigma prevents people getting help, even for mild MH problems that respond well to talking therapy. Stigma increases social isolation and reduces opportunities for work. We know that both of these make mental illness worse.
I still have hundreds, if not more people, with mental illness roaming downtown, living on the streets, regularly leaving feces on sidewalks, screaming at passerbys and expressing what appears violent behavior and nothing is being done about it.
What I can do is to ask you to not assume that violent behaviour is a result of a mental health problem; or to not assume that a person with a mental illness is going to be violent. (Apparently I can do that more politely than I have so far.)
You're just arguing about words.
"Don't discriminate against people with a mental illness when recruiting for a job" becomes "give people with a mental illness the same treatment at job interviews".
But if you want a bigger list:
Reform the broken healthcare model in the US
Push for evidence based treatment. This will usually be a short course of CBT; sometimes it'll be a talking therapy and meds. Sometimes it'll be meds and talking therapies and weekly / monthly visits from a nurse or an occupational therapist. Rarely it'll be a stay in hospital. Even more rarely it'll be a forced stay in hospital against the patient's wishes. Even more rarely it'll be a forensic hospitalisation - a forced stay in hospital ordered by the courts instead of a prison stay.
Push for employment programmes to get people with a mental illness back into employment. See for example the Sainsbury Centre for Mental Health documents http://www.centreformentalhealth.org.uk/pdfs/dwp_commissioni...
Push for social inclusion programmes; volunteer for those programmes;
San Francisco has a death by suicide rate of 9.8 per 100,000. There is probably some work to do around funding suicide prevention work (which happens earlier than a suicide attempt) and funding suicide intervention (which happens around the time of an attempt). http://www.sfhip.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=NS-Indicato...
"Reform the broken model" is a positive, actionable step in the same way that "Change the culture!" is a positive, actionable step. Which is to say it's a statement of a goal rather than anything immediately useful. But more "arguing about words", right?
You shouldn't cite the suicide rate without context. Following your link, SF is doing better than average in California.
But suicide is still a significant cause of death, especially for middle aged men, even in San Francisco.
What I have said is that when you see violence in public you should not assume the perpetrator has a mental illness because they probably don't; and when you see someone with a mental illness you should not think that they are violent, because they probably aren't.
I can understand the downvotes for tone - it's too late to edit so I'm stuck with those.
I can't understand the downvotes for this post https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8548999
Edit: downvoters - please let me know why you're downvoting my later posts.
And I'd have to disagree - anyone who is acting out in public has certainly got some mental problem, pretty much by definition. Whether its a persistent illness is between them and their doctor. But from the coffee shop's point of view, they gotta be dealt with, period.