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This is one of my least favorite things about American culture. Not just in cabs, but in most service situations.

I've literally stopped going to coffee shops that became too chatty. Sometimes I just want a coffee, not a chat about the weekend and the weather and the local sports team.

I much prefer the French service style: efficient, cordial, but out of your way.

In average French restaurants/coffee shops, since waiters aren't tipped, they don't care so much about the efficient part, sometimes even the cordial part. They are out of your way though.

In America if a waiter is too chatty you can politely ask for more quiet time, they are chatty because they want a good tip. Asking a French waiter to be less out of your way isn't as easy

> Asking a French waiter to be less out of your way isn't as easy

I would rephrase that to "Asking a French waiter to be more in your way because the service sucks isn't as easy."

> since waiters aren't tipped, they don't care so much about the efficient part, sometimes even the cordial part.

I would say this could be due more to other factors apart from tipping.

I don't find hospitality customer service any ruder in Australia and we're not a tipping country.

It's complicated wrt Australia vs America hospitality customer service - I do tend to find overall that you get better service in the US and way more emphasis on checking whether things are going well and making sure you're having a good experience. That said, I am often surprised how bad service can be in the US given the whole emphasis on tipping - I guess part of it is very few people would actually not tip on bad service (I feel awful tipping less than 15%, regardless of how bad the service was).

In general though, customer service seems to be superior in the US than in Australia from my experience.

Superior is subjective. I find the constant hovering and obsequiousness of American service workers disruptive and annoying. I don't mind getting a waiter's attention if I need it.

Exactly what I love about France -- there (generally) when you need them, ghosts when you don't.

To be fair, that's the goal of perfect service. Every interaction precise, pleasant and necessary to improving your experience of the meal. Being available, but not imposing presence unnecessarily.

Yeah I tried to couch it in terms of being my opinion / experience as much as possible. It is a very subjective thing.

In my experience/opinion, service in Australia tends to be a lot more genuine, whereas in the US you get fake nice just so the waiter gets their tips

Which also means when someone is in a bad mood you really feel it.

I do vastly prefer the model in Australia of anyone being your server, rather than having a specific waiter. If your waiter goes missing in the US, it seems so silly that if you talk to another waiter, they have to go find _your specific one_ for you.

Tipping incentivizes a waiter to over-promise (sure I can take care of both of these sections!) and sometimes results in under-delivering.

They intend, and try to give good service 99% of the time I think. So for me at least, that's why I have trouble not tipping. It's the thought/effort that counts I guess. I almost never have a less-than-great service situation and attribute it to the waiter just being lazy. Can't remember the last time that happened to be honest.

The basis of the French waiter style is cultural, not economic. The idea of "service" is much different in France. The "egalité" of the French society is theoretically classless, meaning there isn't the concept of a "servant" class. So everyone is equal in terms of the customer -- waiter dynamic. Interestingly, in my town of Avignon, I am somewhat well known among the restaurants I frequent and thus it isn't unusual to have chats with the waiters, but it's more like colleagues chatting as opposed to that fake/friendliness you get in a place like Chile's. I mightn't have articulated my idea well due to my time constraints today, but the net point is that there's a cultural difference based on societal "role" as opposed to grubbing for tips. That isn't to demean other cultures (I used to be the chatty American bartender in the US back in the day,) -- it just is what it is.

I'm curious where you live. I live in Southern California and frequent several different independent coffee shops on a weekly basis. I just don't have this problem. "efficient, cordial, but out of your way" describes my experience perfectly.

Really? This is one of your least favorite things about America? Wow.

To be fair, you are basically describing a taxi service or professional driving service, word for word. The friendly, talkative atmosphere is exactly what Lyft is marketing towards. In fact, a comment directly below yours talks about how great the atmosphere is for them and how it feels like a true ride sharing service between friends.

One couldn't even argue the ride sharing between friends when you actively don't want to communicate with your driver....

I have never taken an Uber ride, but maybe the reason why they are seen as #1 is that they are not trying to invent some new kind of relationship with riders. I did hear recently that Lyft was moving away from the fist-bump and mustache.

It may be an introvert thing, but I find this similar to how I vastly prefer the self-checkout machines at the supermarket. I don't really want to expend the finite emotional energy I have on being fake-social with people I don't even know while I'm making a business transaction.

Although apparently Lyft is now available where I live, it's never even had the inclination to try their service (as a passenger) because I find actually meeting new people and having open-ended conversations with them quite exhausting and stressful. At least with UberX I am assured we can just be polite to each other and not say much.

There's a Bible proverb somewhere that says, "He who refreshes others will himself be refreshed." Sometimes it can seem like we only have a finite amount of emotional energy, but keep in mind the ways to refresh that store.

I think there's probably a middle ground between the ordering/app experience of one of these services, and the "I just want to sit in the back and ignore you" of a taxi. No taxi I've taken recently has enabled me to smoothly order and pay by app.

I'm not asocial, but sometimes I'd rather just get from A-to-B without fuss.

Oddly, I've found London taxis to be the best at this. They're usually able to keep up on a conversation about a variety of things - we once had a taxi driver explain to us all the nasty parts of the brewing process of Stella Artois - but they're quite happy to let you sit in the back and not talk if you want.

Taxi service on a good day. Lots of taxi drivers are more than happy to fill in any gaps of knowledge you may have on the political issues of the moment :-)

But to your broader point, tastes do differ.

Lyft created that image because they thought they would need some cover story about "friends driving friends" in order to violate taxi licensing laws without repercussions. Uber demonstrated that such a cover story was unnecessary.

Source? Or is this conjecture on your part?

Unless Lyft didn't charge for rides then regardless of how they describe it, fundamentally it is still a pay-per-ride service (i.e. taxi) and still subject to the taxi industry regulations (which I don't necessarily agree with but exist nonetheless).

I 'm curious if companies like these could legally operate by not charging by time or distance but instead operating as a private club wherein someone purchases a membership that grants them free time or mileage (up to a certain limit) or some system based on pricing sort of like how NYC MetroCards are set up).

They didn't "charge" for rides for a long time. They called them "donations" and you were perfectly entitled not to "donate" anything. Of course the driver would give you a bad rating if you "donated" anything less than the suggested "donation."

Lyft even called the fares "donations" until roughly 6 months ago.

Feel free to hop in back and skip the fist bump. Simple way to indicate that you're just looking for transport.

Lyft tells you to do it though:

https://www.lyft.com/

"Hop in the front seat and greet your driver with a friendly fistbump"

It creates an expectation - and it feels like you're not really getting into the spirit of things if you're not playing along.

It's the whole reason I haven't tried Lyft yet too, much like other people in this thread.

Then again it's a paid service not kindergarten.

well, they also say things like this, to be fair: http://view.lyftmail.com/?j=fe5012797d6400747012&m=fe6915707...

Just an FYI, your email and name are available via links off of that url.

Not on their front page. It sounds silly, but I would happily use Lyft if they dropped the pretense of being your friend. I love using Uber because if I want to engage I can, if I don't, I can just chill out. They don't dictate or encourage one way or another.

Same with Lyft. But the friendliness is there if you want it (much more so than Uber in my experience). If Lyft dropped the friendliness and just tried to be Uber it would go out of business.

I've taken Lyft a handful of times, and in my experience, it seems like it's only the new drivers that are awkward about this---after that, they usually do a good job of reading my body language and responding appropriately. I think I'd taken Lyft 5 or 6 already times before the first driver ever awkwardly initiated an actual fist bump.

Holy hell is that off-putting. I had a few coupons for Lyft but I'll pass.

I should mention, though, that you can have the healthy culture of driver respect at a place like Lyft with the professionalism of Uber. Sounds like the sweet spot to me.

A little bit of friendly whimsy has actually proven to be a fantastic business attribute. Think Ikea, Southwest, Target, In n Out. But by all means, go with boring and inhumane.

I agree. I like Lyft but what the author feels is sterile and walled off about Uber appears to me as organization and professionalism. Likewise, what the author applauds about Lyft as being unique and perhaps more engaging appears to me as being a little too lax and carefree. If my life is in your hands via you driving then I'd better see you as a professional who takes their job seriously since I don't know you.

... but the "we're all friends" culture sounds ok on paper but when I'm paying for car service, maybe I'm just a bitch, but I don't want to be your friend.

I prefer Uber for at least this reason. I don't want to chat or make a friend; I just want to get from point A to B and be left alone.

As I was reading the article, though, I realized that if I were a driver, I'd prefer to drive for Lyft. I'm not a particularly "professional" person, and I appreciate Lyft's "come as you are" driver culture... at least from the perspective as a potential driver. As a rider I'd still prefer the efficient and non-social Uber.

Yep. I don't have a lot of occasion to take taxis/Uber but I do take a car service to the airport fairly frequently. Most of the time I'm fine with a few minutes of chit chat about what the weather has been like while I've been away or the successes/tribulations of whatever sports team, or what traffic nightmare is going on at the moment--but, at that point, I'm generally good with being driven to my destination without feeling the obligation to make further polite conversation, listen to talk radio, or whatever.

I vastly appreciate Lyft more as a rider. They feel more human. Yes, many drivers drive for both Uber and Lyft. Further, Lyft pays the drivers better.

Did you choose to sit in the front or the back of the car? When I get taxis in Beijing, I sit in the front when I'm open to chat, and the back when when I'm not. Most drivers respect this signal.

Does the same not work with Lyft? I've only tried Lyft once (in SF). I chose to sit in the front, and had an enjoyable conversation with the driver.

There's not problem whatsoever sitting in the back seat without a fist bump or chatting. But I think Lyft's friendlier brand promise could ultimately keep it in the game.

i don't particularly want to do any of that (i'd far rather sit in the back and not talk), but i put up with it for the pleasure of using a service where the drivers feel treated well. uber seems to have imbibed the toxic "customer is always right" mentality[0] that often gets confused with actual professionalism.

[0] except when it comes to customers versus uber, of course