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Comment by puranjay | Hacker News Reader

As a writer, I like the idea of a minimalist writing app. I really do. It feels natural. Just you and a blank screen so you can tap away and kill whatever demons are haunting you.

Except there is a problem: serious writers need more than 'minimalism'.

All the authors and novelists and long-form fiction writers I know have reams upon reams of notes, plot information, and character data cluttering up their MS Word (argh) and Scrivener screens. I even know some to use spreadsheets to keep track of complicated family trees and plots in long fantasy novels.

This is why I use Scrivener. It's bulky and far from minimalist, but it has the tools I need.

Minimalist apps are for people who want to play 'pretend' at writing. Or write a blog post a day and call that 'substantial writing'. But if you really, really need to put together a story, you will need to do your research. And minimalist apps are of no use to you then.

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You do understand that Desk and Scrivener are not really in competition, right? Or do you also lecture Miata owners about how they're cute vehicles and all, but they should really know that Miatas are terrible for long-distance cargo hauling?

(Edited...) I'm not particularly enamored of "minimalist" writing apps, either -- I'd really like to see a prose-focused editor with modern design sensibility with the editing capability of Nota Bene for DOS two decades ago (which, it's worth noting, Scrivener lacks as well) -- but you're being unduly snippy about it, I think. I write and even occasionally sell stories that are, in fact, written in Markdown in relatively minimal editing environments. Not every story needs research folders, timelines and an index card view.

i second this... insofar as sharing that for years (a decade+) i've used basic markdown editors and even code editors for a lot of my writing.

many of them are not very good... but some of them are amazing. it's all about what works best for the individual.

i've been really "nice" about every single comment here on HN... but i can't help but let you know that this comment is single-handedly the most pompous one of all.

"substantial writing"...? really? "serious" writers?

I could list 10,000 pieces of GLORIOUS work that was crafted on nothing more than "pen" and "paper" ... or perhaps just "paper" and "ink" and "typewriter"...

PEN + PAPER == Maximally-minimal "app"...

and in that way, with Desk, I was attempting to create an homage, of sorts, to the "old way" of creating great writing work.

keeping it simple, effective, useful.

minimalist apps are for the serious and the playful, for those that are writing epic novels (one user of Desk is a multi-New York Times winning author) and those that are, as you say, "pretending" to write (like my 8-year old daughter, perhaps: http://john.do/gift-writing/).

but, it all, at the end of the day, is still writing...

"There is nothing to writing. All you do is sit down at a typewriter and bleed." ~~~ Ernest Hemingway

http://john.do/writer/

>> Minimalist apps are for people who want to play 'pretend' at writing.

> this comment is single-handedly the most pompous one of all.

It is interesting to note that HN's commenting guideline is to "Be civil. Don't say things you wouldn't say in a face to face conversation." yet, the folks here are downvoting puranjay's neutral 'pretend' comment (not targeted at anyone in particular) while upholding yours (you don't tell someone to their face that they made a pompous remark). What hypocrisy.

this comment will go nowhere, but, i'll try...

you're right. i should have taken a step back here. i am being hypocritical and i am (was) wrong. great catch and thanks for that safaridevelop.

You are welcome, and thanks for acknowledging without getting defensive. My hypocrisy comment was not directed at you, but to the general HN crowd that upvoted yours while downvoting that of puranjay (it had negative votes at the time of my comment). I have seen this happen with my own comments which, although meticulously researched and not offensive, sometimes get down voted to oblivion just because I challenge a dominating belief here. It shows me that people can be all smart as they want, and yet continue holding on to their beliefs like a tribe member defending tribe values.

Agreed and agreed.

Tolstoy didn't write War & Peace with Scrivener, after all.

But what Tolstoy did have was a thick notebook filled with copious notes.

As did every other writer.

Heck, there was a picture going round a few days ago of JK Rowling's huge spreadsheet with plot information, all written on paper.

Now, you can of course get yourself a notebook and take your notes and get your writing done in a minimalist app, but since we are talking about using the computer alone to get all your writing done, I won't bring pen and paper into the equation.

Desk replaces the typewriter. It doesn't replace the notebook and endless scribbles and marginalia.

For that, you still need a tool like Scrivener.

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