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Comment by siegecraft | Hacker News Reader

I'm surprised that Dell managed to get back to this point, but I think Apple is no longer a no-brainer if you want a "nicer" build quality, and you can start differentiating based on support. I never thought I would buy a non-Apple laptop again, but I've actually been eyeing the Dell XPS and a friend's recent experiences w/ AppleCare makes me want to take every effort to find an alternative hardware vendor, assuming they can hit close to the same quality.

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I have an XPS 13 from 2013. It's just over a year old. As I wrote elsewhere the left usb port can't support full power devices - something which support tells me after sending a technician out three times to replace the logic board. They couldn't fix it, so they told me it's "by design". Riiight...

This week the SSD died. I won't be calling them again, I can't face the pain of talking to them.

The SSD is just a hard drive, and they do die...

You wouldn't tell people not to buy a Ford because you owned one once that got a flat tire...

But I would expect someone not to buy if they are expecting good support, and the vendor cannot offer that.

> after sending a technician out three times to replace the logic board.

Seems like that is premium support. Lenovo only does that if you pay the upgraded support fee and have a business model laptop. Most have to mail their laptop to the depot and wait 1-2 weeks to get it back... then discover the original problem wasn't fixed.

In my experience, Dell's support is pretty good.

Today is not a good day to extoll Lenovo's benefits :\

Internal computer parts are not even close to comparable to a tire. A more reasonable comparison would be a clutch, which you'd expect to last more than a year if treated properly.

eh, I had a wheel bearing go bad on a brand new car after 8k miles.

The model/make reviewed excellently, and is still considered a great choice. Two years later, it's been reliable and gets us from point A to point B affordably.

Manufacturing is hard.

> Manufacturing is hard.

Especially when you are not the one who manufactured the item, but get the blame for it's failure (Hitachi hard drives in Dell computers... Takata airbags in Toyota cars...)

Ha, that's the some issue my friend is having... except every time he has to drive to the apple store, wait for his genius, try and get the problem (sometimes intermittent) to reproduce, then they'll replace the logic board for a 3rd or 4th time and send it back to him. It appears that Apple doesn't even have a "premium" support option whereas at least with Dell I could get accidental damage coverage.

I have a 2012 XPS 13. After a year there was only one working USB port remaining and the DVD drive was broken. I have no idea why people are gushing over Dell, every one I've had has been cheap rubbish.

So far the consumer support stories I heard from Dell and Lenovo, have almost always been way worse than Apple's. When you read about good support from Dell for example, it's usually their business support. Apple can be tricky, but so far I've always been able to find at least one support partner or Apple store that is competent in a particular area. I've also never had to wait for long.

one thing also to consider, though is that Dell and Thinkpad have tiers of products (consumer, business), whereas Apple only has one. For example, the superfish thing doesn't even affect the Thinkpad line of Lenovo. If you only compare consumer reports for their Thinkpads vs Macbooks, you'd probably see less difference in costumer satisfaction.

> I'm surprised that Dell managed to get back to this point, but I think Apple is no longer a no-brainer if you want a "nicer" build quality, and you can start differentiating based on support. I never thought I would buy a non-Apple laptop again

As someone not fond of companies using patent-lawsuits to ban competitors from market, I can assure you that me, and lots of people like me, never once considered Apple a company it would be ethically defensible to buy hardware from.

If you're a software-developer, why would you fund and reward the lawyers trying to use software-patents to ban your right to deliver a product? It's suicidal and doesn't make sense.

Yes. Maybe these days Apple has kinda backed out a little and stepped down from the thermonuclear bit of the patent-throne. But they were the ones who started it, and we do remember. They're not getting our money.

In the mean time we're very happy companies like Asus and Dell are chugging out quality products without the guilt and bad karma associated with patent-trolling.

Man, I finally a few years ago got completely comfortable with OSX and scripted so much stuff that I can set myself up basically anywhere in 5-10 minutes. Now I'm stuck on a MBPr and get to watch all of these amazing new PC laptops come out that are so innovative. All of the hybrids, convertibles, detachable convertibles, rotatable convertibles. I'm so envious.

Come on Apple, seriously.

I've played around with a few of those devices, had a Surface for awhile, etc. Ended up moving back to a big-ass laptop (15" rMBP) and a big-ass phone (iPhone 6+). It's really hard to beat the combination of quad-core power, tons of RAM, giant battery, and lots of screen real estate.

I'm the opposite, I loathe big laptops. I always used Thinkpad X's or the Vaio Z's connected to monitors. That way when I leave I just pop them off the dock and carry them out the door with my paperwork. Take 'em to a coffee shop or out on the porch and get some work done. On that note, I can't do the 11s though. I initially had an 11" MBA and that was way too small.

I'll never do another 15" laptop!

Fair enough. Though, my 15" rMBP is slightly lighter and 40% thinner than the 12" PowerBook G4 that used to be the height of portability not too long ago.

I have used a 15 rMBP in coach on a plane before. It's really not that big. At some point being smaller and light makes no practical difference imo.

The MBP is not all that "pro" any more. Soldered components, the bare minimum of USB ports, no RJ-45 ethernet jack. I'd be more than willing to add thickness & weight to one in return for those features, and better thermal management.

I don't think those features are what make it "pro". I prefer it being thinner and lighter with soldered components rather than heavier without. RJ-45's are terrible on laptops, they're ugly, bulky, and hardly used. I'd much rather just use USB -> RJ45.

You can point to any feature (excluding reliability) and claim that feature doesn't make something 'pro'.

I know one senior sysadmin - the kind of guy other sysadmins go to for advice - who's getting a Novena laptop as his next machine for work. That thing doesn't come with a keyboard and exposes the motherboard when the screen is up.

Well, that's just like, your opinion, man.

I've used the Ethernet controller on my laptop many more times than I've used USB 3.0. Heck, I used a USB/Serial adapter more times than I used USB 3.0.

Not every professional is a web developer.

They really need to step it up this year or their status as the go to dev laptop is going to fade. I really dont know why i can't get a touchscreen MBP yet either..

I don't understand the appeal of touch screens (really, not trolling). What sort of tasks do you find one superior for?

They are extremely convenient when laying down on my back and my laptop is on my upper chest. It's very awkward to try and reach the touchpad in that position.

Yes, I have a similar problem.

I often carry my Macbook on top of my head when I go around the house.

It's just really awkward to reach the touchpad that way, so I hope the next Macbook will add one on the bottom as well.

I am hoping that there's a screen on both sides of the lid so that I can use it when it's shut.

> Come on Apple, seriously.

By depending on one non-standard HW supplier, you are building your own jail. Have you considered breaking out?

Get out there. Try these wonderful gadgets you want so badly. Taste freedom. Freedom feels good.

I'm actually not a fan of the hardware at all. I hate that I can't buy an actual dock to dock, so I'm unplugging ghetto caddy every time I want to take my laptop home from the office.

Thing is I love OSX, and actually, not even specifically OSX, I love some of the apps MADE for OSX only. If these damned developers would make webapps or linux ports I'd LOVE to migrate back to either a thinkpad carbon X or some sort of cool new Surface Pro/convertible deal.

I'm going to go through all of my apps at some point and see what I REALLY need that is OSX only. I just realized Intellij has a Linux version and so does Unity.. so, as long as I can virtualize efficiently with virtualbox or something to get .net 4.5+ stuff going I'm totally game to start working from Linux.

> as long as I can virtualize efficiently with virtualbox or something

You can use VirtualBox on Linux, but QEMU with KVM is, in my experience, far more efficient, and a lot less buggy.

I've been using a Dell XPS 15z for the last three years, comping from an MBP and it has been a relief so far on a lot of points: reliability, drivers, support. I probably had a non-exemplary extremely bad experience with Apple and AppleCare but it was enough to say 'thanks but never again' (mobo replaced twice, swollen battery, OSX actually gave gray screens more then windows gave blue screens on that machine, completely dead in the end - of course right after the extended AppleCare expired, people working in the local Apple store seemed to have been trained to behave like assholes). Again anecdotal but had none of such problems with Dell. So far.

I could never get used to the weird placement of the fn button, to the far left of the keyboard. Many other laptops also have this, it's a dealbreaker for me. All shortcuts I know fall out, and even with long use I can't really get used to it. And a lack of proper arrow keys is annoying for some gaming. It's weird, but it's those little things that count.

I'm glad other vendors are getting better with build quality, so there is more options available for people with my preferences.

Lenovo laptops have had a bios setting since 2010 that lets you swap the fn & ctrl keys. That doesn't swap the keycaps though.

Some history of the placement and many comments http://blog.lenovo.com/en/blog/fn-versus-ctrl-let-the-games-...

A series of posts where they asked for feedback, then acted on it.

Thinking about changing the key configuration http://blog.lenovo.com/en/blog/switch-mode-for-fn-ctrl-keys

They decided to make it bios switchable showing screenshot http://blog.lenovo.com/en/blog/switch-mode-for-fn-ctrl-keys-...

Announcement of implementing it across many models http://blog.lenovo.com/en/blog/switch-mode-for-fn-ctrl-keys-...

I have an apple desktop, however laptops are not viable for many because they are not business friendly nor is OS X. Between large phones, tablets, and great desktops, I find the need for a laptop is far less than before. Work issues laptops (all Dells / Windows) because we have to have remote ability in case of disaster as well as a guaranteed safe system to connect from (no non company connections, laptops are encrypted too)

What did drive me off Apple laptops was more wallet oriented, keeping the best features for only the top configurations priced them beyond what I was willing to give.

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