Schiit Happened, 2015 Chapter 4: Bridging the Gap
head-fi.org
head-fi.org
A human being does not need more than 44.1 KHz audio playback. If anyone claims you need a higher sample rate for audio that sounds better, they're lying (whether they realize it or not).
More than 16 bits per sample just lowers the noise floor, and at 16 bits, it's pretty damn low. For playback, you really won't need more. Again, if someone professes the subtle string quartets and powerful metal jams you can only get with more bits per sample, they're lying.
It is true that better headphones will make a real difference, it is true that you can (barely) do noticeably better than 160kbps mp3 (for stereo). But audio engineers understand enough about how the human ear really works to know that more than about 44 KHz or more than about 16 bits per sample truly does not help for final audio playback.
All that to say, this two facts are not like nutrition, and they're not a matter of "some people may hear a difference, but I don't". Selling something as better for playback because of 96KHz / 24bit audio is preying on human weaknesses of judgement, when we know scientifically that these specific two things don't help.
It's been posted a bunch, but this is a really great demonstration of digital audio fundamentals https://wiki.xiph.org/Videos/Digital_Show_and_Tell
What we DO know is that our ears no not work anyway like how we represent audio in PCM form. We know that they are highly sensitive in some frequency ranges, and that sensitivity includes higher temporal impulse precision than is required, such as the 300-3khz band used for human speech.
As in, for some frequency bands, our "sampling rate" (if such a thing could be applied apples to apples in human hearing) is higher than in others. I suspect this may be related to our ability to localize 3D perfectly sound with only two ears.
Not only that, but also in some frequency bands, we can detect finer differences in sound level than 16 bit can describe.
So no, 16 bit/44.1khz probably is not sufficient.
Also, you bring up lossy encoding which has no place in this discussion. If you want to discuss how lossy codecs exploit the flaws in hearing to compress audio better, talk about codecs that use wavelets and are highly effective at what they do due to a finely tuned psychoacoustic model, such as exploiting that our "sampling rate" and "bit depth" are non-linear across frequency bands.
You are correct in that human hearing is highly sensitive in the 300-3kHz band, and that sensitivities to minute timing and phase differences between the ears helps us accurately localize sound with only two ears. But I fail to see how that is relevant to whether or not 16-bit/44.kHz digital audio being enough to reproduce sound without audible distortion.
Are you aware of some evidence that shows how 16-bit/44.1Khz is insufficent? I would be very interested to see it.
However, I'm actually happy with properly mastered 16/44.1 on a proper DAC that has THD and noise levels below what is required for 16 bit (which I can get for $100 in an external DAC, for $150 with multiple inputs, from Schiit).
The big issue is, they don't properly master them, and releasing the HD versions seems to lessen the impact of an improper master (such as we can hear finer steps in volume than 16 bit can do when all the samples have a smaller dynamic range, but we can't if they had mastered everything with 12+ bits of dynamic range like the creators of CDs had intended).
Honestly, if CDs had chosen 20/48 instead of 16/44.1, most of this bullshit would have never happened.
tl;dr I'm a bigger proponent of increased bitdepth over sampling rate, but I'm happy if I get both to get just one.
Per Nyquist's Theorem, 44.1 kHz can represent frequencies up to 22050 Hz, which is higher than human hearing's estimated bandwith of 20 Hz - 20 kHz, and for most adults isn't much higher than 17 kHz.
However, take the extreme case of a 22 kHz sine wave, it will be represented in PCM as a triangle wave! So, with 44.1 kHz, the closer you get to 22 kHz, the more distortion / harmonics you get, which may be noticeable.
In the textbook case, more than 16 bits per sample might just seem to lower the noise floor. However this is based on the assumption that the voltage spacing is exactly the same for every increment in the sample word -- and this is simply not going to be true in the real world.
This applies to both axes: at 44.1kHz, no clock tick is going to be precisely equally spaced from every other.
In other words, every A/D and D/A process is introducing non-linear behaviour and thus artefacts that change according to the actual input, as a concern quite outside that of the noise floor or the Nyquist limit.
Increasing the bit depth and sample rate helps reduce the effects of such non-linearities.
Because they simply can't. This has been tested so often. So far no human being was found that can hear the difference.
HiFi seems pretty rotten to me. There are lots of points where today the cheapest option is just as good as ones for thousands of dollars (cables being the best example). HiFi people spend thousands on voodoo, yet spending money on products that have a bigger focus on design is seen as a waste of money.
The only thing that really separates HiFi from consumer audio is speaker size
Now scale power 1000x, I bet price will go up as well. Probably exponentially.
may you please suggest a couple in that range ? i currently have a b&w p5, which i am thinking of upgrading...
Anyway for daily beating at office I would recommend DT 770 PRO, 80 Ohms. In my opinion best closed studio headphones for reasonable price. Mine are ten years old now. I believe in-ear demages hearing. I also dont like active noise cancellation. Also check some foldable options if you travel a lot.
You will also need USB soundcard with headphones amplifier. Some devices combine both. I have EMU Tracker Pre USB 2.0, but thats no longer sold. Not sure what today market is, but this seems to have good reviews: http://www.amazon.com/FiiO-E10-USB-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B0...
I just think it is really bad advice. Why buy expensive headphones optimised for amps without amp? Just waste of money.
BadPhones -> GoodPhones
is a much greater step than
UnampedGoodPhones -> AmpedGoodPhones.
---
(of course there's always an amp, Unamped just means no beefy one)
But yes, it's not worth arguing about unless we could all sit together and test some equipment.
But it's still noisier than well-regarded USB DAC/amps available for well below $100 or just a little over. (Fiio, Schiit, Audioquest, etc. are names to look into if anybody's interested)
As a bonus, using a USB DAC+amp will save some wear and tear on your laptop's headphone jack. Those can wear out if you're plugging and unplugging your headphones several times a day over the course of several years. That is not an easy, fun, or cheap repair.
thanks for the info. on the usb dac side i do have the audioengine-d3, which runs the p5...
Go and listen to headphones with your own music and make up your own mind.
You may consider an external DAC and amplifier if you listen to a laptop — this will help with case noise and power. Beware, however: this is where you get close to snake oil products. Most amps do not make a difference, and a lot depends on your source. An iPhone is an excellent source for most headphones, for example (including all of the above). A reasonable DAC-amp combo is the O2+ODAC, and it is DIY if you can solder. The Schiit stuff in the link above is pretty meh, even though it is often recommended (crappy volume pot in the cheaper units).
The HE-400 has the old Hifiman headband, the old pads, and the old cable, and suffers from a boomy bass issue. Replacing the pads and cables (absolutely required, new pads fix boomy bass issue some but not all, old cable breaks easily) raise the cost to be almost as much as the HE-400i, and you can't ever fix the headband issue.
The HD650/HD650 and AKG K701/Q701/Kxx/K712 family however I do agree with.
Also, the DT770 isn't fully closed, its semi-open. The DT990 also isn't fully open, its semi-open. They are merely closer to each end of the spectrum, with DT880 in the middle of semi-open, but they're ALL semi-open.
Disclosure: Former DT880/600 Premium owner, current HE-400i owner.
This something that is possible. However I wonder if you really tested it, or if you just think that you can hear the difference. Often people in HiFI claim that they can hear a difference when in reality they can't.
> Now scale power 1000x, I bet price will go up as well. Probably exponentially.
As you go up with power you can often use techniques that are cheaper per watt in electrical engineering. Also size restrictions that you have with headphones fall away. I don't know why people always believe everything to be exponential. Anyway - with "normal HiFi" you have different problems than with headphones.
The problem with soundstage is that most recordings are made for speakers. Binaural recordings + headphones results in much better and much more realistic soundstage.
With the shifting listing habits and the raise of digital distribution(which make it much easier to provide multiple mixes of the same recording) I was expecting to see more and more binaural recordings. Sadly it doesn't happen(yet?).
i think with sufficient volume you could probably hear the difference between wav and 320 too, but i haven't tested this.
However, just for information, there is a lot more to lossy audio compression than just bitrate. A song encoded with modern LAME with VBR at around 64k or 96k possibly sounds better than the same song encoded with a napster-era encoder at 192 CBR. Modern formats such as AAC or Vorbis are even more performant than LAME.
I don't have hard data to back it up, but I think 99% of people would not differentiate between lossless and and lossy with a mid high quality setting (lame at v3-ish, whatever the equivalent is in the best aac encoder these days), even on a great headphone setup. Maybe if they were specifically looking for artifacts in particuliar problem samples.
96KHz sample rate for playback? Anything which adds extra shielding and filtering on top of a to-spec $20 ethernet cable? Nope, that can't help.
> HiFi seems pretty rotten to me.
Yes to everything you said. I simultaneously feel guilty about, and take solace in, the fact that a lot of the insanely overpriced snake-oil crap at the high end is effectively subsidizing the really good "prosumer" stuff.(Example: Audioquest, maker of $1,000+ audio cables, also makes a very solid little USB amp&DAC called the Dragonfly that costs just over $100. I'm not suggesting that they're selling these at a loss or anything, but I'm sure that product lines like $1,000+ audio cables give them some freedom to try products like the Dragonfly...)
Frankly I feel a lot closer to people on the other side of the globe than many of the people in my own neighbourhood, city, or country. I don't see why hi-fi made by mormons is any better than hi-fi made by muslums.