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Comment by vanzard | Hacker News Reader

> needs a bank account anyway if they want to convert their bitcoin into something that they can actually spend outside of the dark web

That's not true. Americans (Facebook's intended audience for this Messenger money-sending feature) can spend bitcoins directly at Microsoft, Dell, Expedia, Overstock, Newegg, Tiger Direct, DISH Network, etc. They can use and spend bitcoins theoretically received from FB friends without having a credit card, without even having a bank account.

100,000 (legitimate!) merchants worldwide accept Bitcoin - http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/bitcoin-now-accepted-by-100000-merc... It is time to kill the myth of "only the dark web accepts Bitcoin".

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Admittedly, my dark web remark was an exaggeration, however, it remains a practical truth for every day life. In the overwhelming majority of locales, bitcoin cannot be used to pay for groceries, insurance, utilities, rent/mortage, fuel, student loans, daycare, tuition, taxes, medical expenses, phone service, car payments or pretty much any of the common expenses someone might need to pay for. Newegg, Tiger Direct, Microsoft etc are all great companies, but for most people those companies only account for a small number of purchases per year.

The reality is that using bitcoin as money is very impractical, that's just a fact.

All systems that require adoption are, initially, impractical.

Bitcoin is becoming more and more practical as more and more merchants adopt it. Again: 100,000 merchants accept Bitcoin today, and this number is (so far) increasing rapidly.

Do you know where that 100k number comes from? I see it said a lot but the only source listed is an ibtimes story saying "an industry source says 100k". Has anyone figured out how it was calculated?

BitPay alone has 50k merchants: http://blog.bitpay.com/2015/03/10/heartland-payment-systems-...

Coinbase has 38k: https://www.coinbase.com/about

Gocoin has 5.5k: https://ihb.io/2015-01-29/news/gocoin-announces-5500-merchan...

That's already 93.5k from merely 3 american bitcoin gateways. Add the rest of the world (China, etc) and it is clear there are 100k or more.

Thanks for the sources.

I'd be curious to see what the active merchants per month actually are for Bitpay and Coinbase. Until then I have a hard time believing they actually have those numbers live given the number of stories I've seen of people visiting stores/restaurants that accept bitcoin only to be told they don't do that anymore.

> All systems that require adoption are, initially, impractical.

I agree with that. It seems we agree that bitcoin is currently impractical, which is the crux of my argument. Bitcoin is not a practical way to send money unless the recipient already has a bank account and a bitcoin exchange account.

I think we need to kill the "bitcoin requires a passport" myth as well. I have used bitcoin for 4 years and have never had to present a passport for anything.

Just because you haven't experienced something doesn't mean it's a myth.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/246mlg/bitstamp_blo...

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/25jyf1/bitstamp_ive...

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/26c1y6/buying_bitco...

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2renc7/why_dont_peo...

I could go on, all I did was search /r/bitcoin for the word "passport" and I was overflowing with results.

You brought up having to present a passport as if it were a requirement to using bitcoin, which it is not. Again, you were spreading FUD.

> You brought up having to present a passport as if it were a requirement to using bitcoin

I'm not sure how you read, "a passport is required to use bitcoin" from "I've never had a bank ask me for a passport when opening a bank account". My point, which I substantiated with those /r/bitcoin posts, is that it's not unusual for a bitcoin exchange to ask for a copy of a customer's passport as part of their KYC procedures.

>>This all assumes the exchange will even do business with them following their extensive KYC checks....I've never had a bank require...a passport..

One can deduce from the context that a passport is required to use bitcoin. It's FUD and incorrect.

What do banks require in order to open an account?

From the 1st result on google:

your name, your date of birth, your current address and phone number, Social Security number (in most cases) and your email address.

You don't need any of those to use bitcoin. You don't need any of those to buy or sell bitcoin.

> One can deduce from the context that a passport is required to use bitcoin.

You deduced incorrectly. I'm saying that if the KYC system flags the recipient, for whatever reason, then they will likely be required to produce a passport.

The KYC system is the exchange's, not bitcoin's. It's similar to blaming TCP/IP because a website requires you to use a password to log in.

> The KYC system is the exchange's, not bitcoin's

This is obvious. What is your point? Nobody is arguing that KYC is a requirement of bitcoin. Let me break down exactly what I'm saying:

1. For the vast majority of people, bitcoin is impractical as a method of payment for every day needs.

2. As a result of this, most people don't want bitcoins, and instead prefer legal tender that is usable wherever they might need to spend it.

3. The most practical and least stressful method for converting bitcoins into legal tender is through an exchange.

4. Exchanges have KYC procedures.

Very simple.

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