Hacker News Reader

Comment by amirmc | Hacker News Reader

Why? Because you find it unfathomable that people would do this? Do you also believe that people never fall for 419 scams?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/419_scams

View on HN

Yes, it is unfathomable that people act like this. This stunt presents itself as an easy to understand trick that works like magic in making people do things like give you their wallet. This is appealing to viewers who can follow what's going on and can feel a sense of accomplishment in learning a new trick. I'm not saying this man was given a script or told exactly what to do. But I would say he was certainly part of a casting call and was "on the job" when this was filmed. The cameras were probably not even hidden.

419 scams are entirely different. They are typically sent out en-masse precisely because most people are not vulnerable to the scam. Also, they appeal to people's greed, the victims believe they will be getting a large sum of money for very little effort. On top of that, the victims are usually worked over for a period of time by seasoned con-artists before sending any money. There is no simple trick like here like handing someone a water bottle or saying a magic phrase.

> 419 scams are entirely different.

I don't think they're entirely different. 419 scams mass e-mail people and are tailored to pull in the kind of people that fall for 419 scams. Likewise, the target of this video here was likely selected by the magician as someone who could have been fooled (walking alone, older, distracted, wallet in front pocket), and also cherry-picked as a video example.

First time I saw one I was sceptical but tempted. After a few you realise how obvious it is. (I am assuming a 419 scam is along the lines of the Nigerian prince wants to send you money - I haven't heard the term before).

It's possible it was staged. Part of the fun of Derren Brown is he will sometimes completely lie about how a trick was performed. For example, when he "predicted" the lottery numbers.

Seems pretty realistic to me. At most they probably did a number of tries and included the most successful.

>This is appealing to viewers who can follow what's going on and can feel a sense of accomplishment in learning a new trick. //

I don't really think that is true. Unless it's explained to them I don't see most viewers picking up on the subtly touches and strange hand/wrist holding, the body language mirroring, the use of the water bottle to distract, the placing and reinforcement of the suggestion?

Personally I think it appeals because it looks entirely like magic - "these are not the droids you're looking for" - to most observers the first time they watch. For me a great illusion is one where I can't see how it's done without at least watching a few times.

There are definitely some magicians using stooges, Dynamo is one who's pretty easy to spot, but if Brown is doing so then he's done really well to hide it as I'm sure the major news outlets would pay well for a person from one of his shows who could expose details to show it was a sham.

Brown's mix of NLP/hypnotism techniques with standard illusion and misdirection is what makes him so entertaining.

> I don't really think that is true. Unless it's explained to them I don't see most viewers picking up on the subtly touches and strange hand/wrist holding, the body language mirroring, the use of the water bottle to distract, the placing and reinforcement of the suggestion?

Yes, viewers can pick up on obvious things like handing someone a water bottle while telling them to give you their wallet and saying things like "You're happy to give that to me". It's only subtle enough for people to feel special in noticing it, but not so subtle for them not to notice it at all.

> Brown's mix of NLP/hypnotism techniques with standard illusion and misdirection is what makes him so entertaining.

What you brand as a demonstration of NLP/hypnotism I see as the psychology equivalent of "Divert auxiliary power from port nacelles to forward shields!"

There is probably a hell of a lot going on, the obvious stuff you do notice as well as very subtle stuff which all adds up. Certainly if you read up on NLP and hypnosis techniques, they talk about blood going to or away from the face depending on the state they are in. Patterns of eye movement corresponding to either remembering something or imagination depending on the direction.

> Brown's mix of NLP/hypnotism techniques

Brown has a pretty bad image of NLP so I'm not sure he would be happy that people say he is using NLP.

Supposedly, what Derren Brown actually admites to doing is filming a scene N times with volunteers, and then discarding the N-m people who didn't fall for the trick. If you try enough times, you'll hit on some confused and tired people.

I had guessed this was probably the case. Some people are a lot more susceptible to being hypnotised than others.

With the amount these come up, it becomes increasingly difficult not to f* with them. You know they're a scam, but when they come up, it's impossible not to fantasize about your ability to scam the scammer. Who is better? Could you do it?

Reply on news.ycombinator.com