Comment by freehunter | Hacker News Reader

Comment by freehunter | Hacker News Reader

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As a man, I've known groups of men to occasionally make crude yet seemingly hilarious remarks that they would not make in the presence of women. If your line of thinking on the subject is correct, I wouldn't be surprised if that was the answer. In the presence of men, other men make men-style remarks. In the presence of women, other women make women-style remarks. I'm not invited to my wife's girls nights with her friends, and she doesn't seem too torn up when she's not on the porch smoking cigars with me and the guys. The reason for that is we want to be able to have gender-specific conversations.

But like you mentioned, if this is happening in the workplace, that's completely wrong for anyone to do. Especially when it's preventing a woman from meeting the former vice president just because she's a woman. Is one woman at a men's only social party a buzz kill? Perhaps. Is one woman at a business meeting a buzz kill? Certainly yes, because there really should be more.

>> if this is happening in the workplace, that's completely wrong for anyone to do

This is the most important part. The comments and examples of gender specific comments/comments males may not make in front of females or vice versa are accurate, anyone denying that there isn't some truth to this is simply wrong (right or wrong, humans have some natural tribal tendencies that lead to this). However, there's a huge difference between comments made on a "guys night" playing poker or a trip to Vegas (or a girls night out, playing poker, going to Vegas), etc. and it happening in the workplace. While the underlying motive of a comment like "we can't invite women to this meeting because it will kill the buzz of a bunch of guys shooting the shit" impacts a career, the career of someone who is clearly highly capable.

It goes further than that. The KP partner that was accused of letting Pao out of company events was described by co-workers as having similar personality traits with her (being pushy and territorial, elbowing others out). He was promoted, she was fired. Sounds like the common pattern that the same sort of behavior will lead a man to be called an "alpha" or somesuch, and a woman, well, a bitch.

I find myself embarrassed for the sexism expressed in each of those situations -- for the stereotypes the men endorse when no women are around, and vice versa.

I'm also single and depressed so take with grain of salt eh.

No, you're right. There's a difference between making a joke about the similarities between your wife and your friend's wife versus making sexist remarks that some groups of men tend to do. And some women do too, to be fair. Humans all have flaws, and some of us try to put those flaws aside. Others like to put their flaws on display like they are proud of them. There's no excuse for it.

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