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Comment by mg1982 | Hacker News Reader

mg1982

It reminds me of the astounding naivete of Aaron Swartz's girlfriend (or whatever she was at the time) in talking to the FBI and then being surprised that they were just looking for shit to pile on him and nothing else.

Don't talk to the cops: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik

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Not everybody subscribes to the super cynical worldview, you'd be surprised how many people live their whole lives in exactly that state of naivety. We're all brought up with platitudes like 'the police is your best friend' and 'we live in a state with fair justice'. Given that it's no wonder that people will actually try to cooperate with police expecting justice to be done. You're essentially blaming the victim here.

No, it's not victim blaming to accuse people of lacking common sense.

There's no excuse for not knowing that the police are not asking you questions so that they can help you.

Your definition of 'common sense' is not all that common, that's the problem here. Whole generations would essentially agree with the statement that 'the police is here to help you'.

It's the police that is in the wrong here, not those that believe in slogans such as 'protect and serve'. That's how I was brought up and the way my parents viewed 'the law'. Quite a few people of that generation are still around and are still instilling their values into others regardless of how misguided that is in light of the developments since they grew up.

Surely you realize that this is cultural.

In my country there is very little crime, and the police very much only exist to serve the population and they are always trying to help.

Common sense here is that it would be foolish to think that the police are not trying to help, and I am very glad that the US's relation with the police is not an entirely global problem.

The cultural aspect is the view of the police, and not the terrible things they are up to. You and your countrymen are simply as naive as Arron Schwartz's girlfriend.

yea, I learned too late in life, and I still am caught off guard. Times have changed, and I don't trust government, nor law enforcement. But, then again I can honestly state as I got older there's only a few people I trust.

This meme bugs me because it is possible to heed the advice while still speaking to the police. I find that the only people who parrot it are those who have never been on the other end of the table. I've seen random people run over and advise a witness to "not talk to the police" while they were describing what happened to an officer at the scene of an accident. You can't package deeper context with something simple like "don't talk to the cops" and expect people to understand it. I think this general advice does more harm than good because of the way it's delivered.

The correct conclusion to come away with from the advice is to be vigilant when interacting with those who have the power to prosecute you, and often that means invoking your right to remain silent -- but not always. You should also know when you need a lawyer -- again, not always. If the cops knock on your door because they're looking for a lost kid, calm down and get over yourself, they're not looking for you.

Sadly, you and me get that, but others take the advice to the extreme and I've seen both of my examples firsthand.

As a guy that had his name run for bench warrants while being a witness to a traffic accident, you can speak for yourself. In some cases nothing good comes about speaking to police, especially in minority/poor communities.

As a guy who spent four months in county pretrial detention on three felonies and a misdemeanor and no bail, I do speak for myself. I didn't speak to the police and lawyered up and I spent 119 days in jail. The next time, the FBI came; this time, I was suspicious but not actually involved, and I carefully spoke to the FBI without a lawyer and remained a free man. It's almost as if there's more to it than the Fifth Amendment.

And yeah, if you're riding a warrant, you probably shouldn't give your name to a law enforcement officer. That's called being stupid, and if you think it's shady to have your name run when a peace officer interacts with you and knows your name, you have some case law to read. That's their job. Witness details go in the same exact system.

I get the gist of the advice but I'm tired of seeing knobs on YouTube with their phone out recording an officer while shouting "I invoke my rights!" over and over again, and I think part of it is the way this advice is interpreted.

>As a guy who spent four months...

Holy shit! What exactly are you doing in your spare time? ;)

You don't necessarily have to do anything, refusing to talk (not necessarily help) makes keeping people in jail so much easier.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhUZaAYsaGU

And if they ring your doorbell and ask to come in, the answer is "No, we'll talk outside." Once you let them in, anything they see is fair game.

Could such a behavior make you more suspicious, and get you into more trouble?

They could find this suspicious and search harder for bogus stuff, but the point is it's your right and thus it cannot be held against you in court.

Talking too much & giving them enough materials for false testimony or pseudo-confession is way more dangerous.

The key is to be polite but assertive. If you yell from behind your door "Hell no PIG! You're never coming inside and it is my RIGHT to say no!!" then it may arouse suspicion. If instead you say " I'm sorry, I wasn't expecting company and my place is a mess. Lets talk outside instead." they will likely not think twice about it. If you treat a cop like the human they are they will probably be more trusting. Funny how that works...

That's exactly right. When the above piece of advice was told to me, the suggested phrasing was something like "If you don't mind, I'd rather discuss this out here with you," and as you say this, pull the door closed behind you.

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