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Comment by netcan | Hacker News Reader

Of all the gadgety improvements cars have picked up over the last 10 years, keys are both the most "oooh!" invoking and the most useless, IMO.

Normal keys work great. I don't see the big advantage of techno-keys that outweighs the (almost inevitable) cost of paying so much for a spare.

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Being able to keep your keys in your pocket/purse/etc when entering and driving a car I find to be a pretty big upside. Especially in areas where it can be cold enough to freeze the key mechanism on your car door.

The drawback is if you left your keys on the bench in the garage next to your car. You get in, push the button to start, then drive off. Now you can't get back home. At least with the physical key you are guaranteed to have it with you.

The other thing -- do the key fobs have an on/off switch? If not, you wouldn't be able to have a spare "hidden" under your car somewhere (yes this is insecure anyway, but it works for most people).

Most key fobs have some kind of failback system that looks like a real/normal metal key.

> do the key fobs have an on/off switch?

Pop out the battery. You don't need the battery to use the hidden spare if you lose your key: there's a physical key hidden inside the fob to unlock the door, then a slot on the dash to stick the whole fob into to start the car. It's there so you can't be stuck unable to start your car when the fob's battery dies.

http://i.imgur.com/uBeach6.jpg

I think (some) cars actually know whether the key is inside or outside the vehicle and can't be started if it's outside.

I actually got curious and have a friend hold my key outside the car while I try to start the engine, and I couldn't. The car correctly detects that the key is not inside with me.

Also, the dashboard will always tell you if you are inside the car but key is not detected. So even if it miscalculates where the fob is and let you start the engine, that key-not-present light will be on as you drive off.

People bring this up as an objection all the time, and I think it always comes from people who have never actually had a car with this feature. First, as mentioned earlier, every car I've had with pushbutton start will not let you start the car unless the key is INSIDE the car. Second, if you try to drive off with the key NOT in the car, they've all made an alert sound and shown a message on the display that the key isn't in the car. It's certainly possible to intentionally drive off without the key, but I don't think it's possible to do so accidentally (or if you're so inattentive that it is possible, you probably shouldn't be driving in the first place).

I suppose in very cold places, there are issues I haven't thought of. Honestly though, I think it's more about how novel and shiny it feels. It makes (made?) the car feel a little futuristic in most cases. A sort of signal a potential buyer that this is the next generation of car..

I think the trade off makes it not worthwhile. If it's optional, I prefer a normal key.

OTOH, There are lots of other cool gadgets that I'd like to see. A car that remembers everyone's seat position and mirrors, that's progress. Manual transmission, normal key, smart seat. That's my niche.

I have a Town and Country and the key never really leaves my pocket. I can touch the door handle on the driver's or passenger's side and unlock all the doors. I thought of it as a novelty at first, then in real life I realized how handy it is. Maybe it's just because I have kids and my hands are usually full but I use it all the time. Also it is nice to just push one button on the door handle to lock all the doors.

Another benefit that I know BMW has (and probably others too?) is that I can press-and-hold the unlock button as I approach the car and the windows roll down. Keep holding, and the sunroof opens. In the summer, it's a nice way to cool off the scorching-hot sun-baked interior before getting in.

This isn't an attack against cars that you have to press a button on the remote to unlock the car. It's an attack on the cars/remotes that are just near each other and unlock/start.

The simple solution: Just go back to pressing a button to unlock and putting the key in the ignition.

If the manufacturer really wants to keep the feature, then they could switch to those keys that flip out like Fiat has and just turn off the near-unlock functionality on the remote when the key is folded in.

Keyless entry and start decrease the amount of time you are vulnerable.

This may not be a problem in California, but it is in some parts of the world. Imagine the shadiest neighborhoods you know. Now, imagine that all of the neighborhoods are like that.

Being able to quickly get in and start the engine is convenient, but also important. The last thing you want to do is to fumble with keys. Or drop them while doing it. It is a plot device in some movies, but also real life.

The problem is that many keyless entry systems - and most wireless 'pushbutton' alarm keys haven't actually picked up gadgety improvements. Instead of a digital system and crypto keys, you have extremely rudimentary, frequency-based systems that are trivial to hack.

Keyless handling is really, really lovely. For a week I drove an e-key system that you just get in and hit start. Even though I only made a couple trips a day, it dramatically increased my satisfaction and happiness.

I would not have predicted this response for such a trivial thing - what's a few seconds more on top of a 20 minute or 2 hour drive? But it made a big difference to me, and I'm guessing many other people enjoy it as well. The downside of paying for a spare isn't very visible, and when it is, it's just a short acute pain, and is washed away in the daily nicety of "keyless" entry.

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