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Comment by collyw | Hacker News Reader

Here in Europe (well UK and Spain whee I have lived and owned a car) you need to get a check every year for older cars, and that includes an emissions test. Don't you get that in the States / Canada? (It would appear that the study was done in Canada).

Saying that, go to many less developed country and the cars are far worse condition.

My friend always used to claim that the environmental cost of producing a new car took 9 years to counter with the efficiencies in fuel consumption. No idea how true that is, anyone know?

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We had a similar program in British Columbia, called AirCare. Unfortunately, people realized that you could use solutions to flush impurities out of your engine, and then if you let your gas tank get close to empty then put a quarter tank of premium in, your car would burn cleaner and get you a pass, even if it would normally fail.

Eventually the program was scrapped, due to fewer cars failing (8%, down from 14%, which is still too high IMHO), and likely as a way of gaining political capital with the public in advance of an election.

That's worth remembering with a car as crappy as mine....

Please also consider not poisoning your neighbors.

I live in a big polluted city, and cycle most places. I use the car for the short season at weekends to go kayaking. It has so far passed the emissions test no problem.

Scrapping a program beause it is suceeding (per its own metrics) but not finished yet, is insane.

In many parts of the States you do, but the strictness of the test varies and the standards are grandfathered.

So, for example, in California (one of the strictest) you must pass a visual inspection, a tailpipe sniffer, and an engine computer scan. There are also many rules about acceptable engine modifications. In other states you may only get an engine computer scan.

As for standards, cars are (rather reasonably) held to the standard they were made to, not the standard of today, and modern cars really are dramatically less polluting than cars from several decades earlier.

Even in California, there are exemptions for: "hybrids, motorcycles, trailers, or gasoline powered vehicles 1975 and older."

...which seems shortsighted. Except for trailers, all of those can have mechanical problems that cause it to pollute far more than they should. My daily driver for a long time was from 1974 and I was never sure why older cars were exempt. If it's a hobby car with historic plates, sure, but if you're driving it every day you should have to follow the same rules as everybody else. In my defense, my old car got 68 mpg and was well fussed-over.

Motorcycles trail cars in emissions improvements & regulations, but they follow nonetheless. Things like electronic fuel injection was not practical on motorcycles until more recent times.

Part of the rationale with the 1975 exemption is that vehicles 1975 and older represent a very small portion of the number of cars on the road, and are driven far fewer miles than average. That beautiful 1966 Corvette didn't last fifty years by being driven every day.

Yes, Ontario (where the study was done), has such a program. An emissions test is required every 2 years on every car more than 7 years old.

The major loophole is that if your car fails, you only have to spend $450 to fix the problem. Spending $450 to improve emissions gives you a pass whether or not it actually fixed the problem or not.

Ontario uses a lot of salt in the winter, so there aren't a lot of old cars on the road.

The salt solution to the pollution problem is somewhat convenient in the end. Cars do rust to pieces far quicker in Ontario than elsewhere.

I'm fairly sure that salt does not differentiate between polluting and non-polluting vehicles.

The point is it takes time to eat the car away, in which time the car begings to pollute more

The number of vehicles on the road that are older than 20 years is shockingly low, especially American brands which rust considerably faster than others. Even cars from 2000 are rare.

In places where there's no extended winter weather I've noticed the cars are often older, with 40+ year old junkers from the 1980s looking, by local standards, no more than ten years old.

Emissions tests in the US are at the state level, not federal. For instance, the state of Virginia has emissions tests. However, the state of South Carolina does not require a test.

And even in Virginia, it differs at the county level. You don't need to get your car tested in southwest VA.

It does seem odd that the state requires safety inspections but doesn't require emissions tests in every jurisdiction.

And in California, which is often considered the strictest state ever invented by man, we have stringent emissions tests but no safety inspection at all! It really confuses all of the California-bashers when you tell them that.

I don't know, the idea that Californians care more about environmental pollution than human lives seems to fit the stereotypes.

There's a logic to it. A person who values their safety - most do! - has an incentive to deal with safety issues, regardless of whether they are compelled. Less so with emissions issues.

Bland County, VA : 18 people/square mile Fairfax County, VA : 2,761 people/square mile Arlington County, VA : 8,309 people/square mile

Any surprise that emissions tests are required in Fairfax and Arlington, but not in Bland County? Largest city in Bland County has a population of 75; it is a different world from the DC suburbs.

In Pennsylvania, emissions tests vary by county. Counties containing or near a major metropolitan area have them. It's likely the same in other states where emissions tests are required somewhere. Allegheny (Pittsburgh) and adjacent counties require it, but Greene (not adjacent, in the southwest corner of PA) does not.

And it can vary within the states. Texas only requires emissions testing in the most populous counties (no point in testing cars in Brewster county with less than 1 person per square mile population density). In the counties with testing, new cars get a 2-year emissions exemption, after which they get tested yearly.

Testing is generally done via the OBD-II port, so the vehicle self-reports it's condition. Vehicles without OBD-II and "other" vehicles use a tailpipe probe to report on exhaust gases.

It varies by region. The other commenters in this thread seem to be from Ontario. In Victoria, where I'm from, your car does not have to meet any kind of standards at all unless it is involved in a collision, in which case an insurance inspector will tell you what needs to be done (if it's an old car they usually tell you to scrap it), or a cop tells you to get it inspected (this is called a Vehicle Inspection ticket). Otherwise, it's sailing rules - anything that isn't expressly forbidden is allowed.

Across the water in Vancouver you do have to pass an emissions test.

In Canada (at least, the part I am in), you can get money if you turn in your old cars, if I remember correctly. They also made it that you must have an inspection done before selling/buying a car, and cars that are not road worthy cannot get sold.

People still find a way to drive, buy and sell pieces of scrap.

In Ontario, Canada the emissions tests are required, but not until the car has seen a lot use: "Generally, you need to get the test every 2 years, once your vehicle is 7 years old. Larger vehicles (called ‘heavy-duty’ vehicles) require the test every year, once they are 7 years old."

http://www.ontario.ca/environment-and-energy/drive-clean-tes...

Not forgeting that for years official government advice (and tax breaks) was "buy diesal cars" which was wrong and is causing considerable death and illhealth and continued problems with air pollution.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-32512152

In California we do it every other year but with more stringent dynamometer tests.

In North Carolina the worst offenders are actually exempt from emissions test. Vehicles made before 1996 and diesel vehicles don't have to pass any sort of emissions tests.

Italy data point: 4 years after you buy, then every 2 years.

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