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Comment by hultner | Hacker News Reader

As a swede I remember this, some entrepreneurial swedes smuggled truckloads of butter over the border and sold through craigslist-esque resale markets for massive profits (we're talking 10-50x the Swedish price). According to Norwegian customs it's illegal to import diary products into Norway, thus rendering the butter smuggling illegal but highly profitable.

Swedish newspapers wrote a lot of articles about this bizarre situation and selling butter to Norwegians became a rather common joke in Sweden during this time and the following year.

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In some world views, going around legislation ("smuggling") for financial profit makes you a criminal, not an entrepreneurial, person.

Who says that you can't be an entrepreneurial criminal? I wouldn't see them as contradicting terms.

Nobody, it's just that especially around here "entrepreneurial" carries positive connotations as far as I know, and I just wanted to point out that all kinds of profit-making perhaps aren't equally awesome.

If people are to associate entrepreneurial qualities as positive no matter the underlying activity then that is their prerogative. I don't think the author of that comment should change his choice of words. I suppose the word 'enterprising' might suit your tastes better while still conveying the intelligence of the perpetrators.

what is wrong with smuggling? Especially with the kind of smuggling mentioned here? In that situation it was a very victimless crime and one can see how it was even beneficial to the public.

Smugglers don't pay import tariffs. From the article:

> Shortages persisted as a result of high import tariffs on butter to protect the domestic dairy industry against foreign competition

Import tariffs are the crime, then, not the smuggling.

On the other hand, especially around here "regulation" carries negative connotations as far as I know, and pointing out the obvious isn't going to make people suddenly endorse protectionism.

And in others, passing such legislation for your cronies' financial profit makes you a criminal.

Is that what is happening here? Maybe.

But, there's also a duty for governments to support national and local industries that are important for the country's long-term security.

Is the production of butter important for Norway's long-term security?

Possibly. At the very least, this story proves that the people do value a stable supply of butter. Norway is not in the EU, so why would they make themselves economically dependent on Sweden for everyday commodities?

this story proves that the people do value a stable supply of butter

Yes. It also proves that the import restrictions threaten that stability.

why would they make themselves economically dependent on Sweden for everyday commodities?

To keep the stable supply that they are unable to maintain on their own, as this story shows. And why would they be dependent on Sweden? Would other countries refuse to export to Norway?

When Goods Don't Cross Borders, Armies Will ;)

That's one way of looking at it. Another way is that it constitutes a regressive tax on a life essential - food - for the sole benefit of a politically powerful minority lobby - food processors.

In the country of my birth, until about 50 years ago, the shoe-making industry was considered important - and the producers managed to convince the government that a tarrif on shoes would protect a vital national industry and all the associated jobs. And indeed it did; but the result is plain in photos from the era; most people wore old worn out shoes particularly the poor.

Personally I think to deprive the relatively poor of access to cheap foreign food/clothes/etc. to ensure a tiny segment of the population is "protected" is immoral. But the political power of industrialists in concert with labour unions is formiddable.

Of course

Let's just hope you stick to that when the difference between following legislation and not is risk to your household, hunger or bodily harm.

> In some world views, going around legislation ("smuggling") for financial profit makes you a criminal, not an entrepreneurial, person.

I read somewhere that the psychological profile of CEO's and criminals are remarkably similar... Growth hacking is also a variation of criminal behavior, and many successful startups use it to their advantage.

There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. -Ayn Rand

> According to Norwegian customs it's illegal to import diary products into Norway

How is that allowed, when Norway is a member of the EEA?

It's not illegal, but dairy products are generally taxed heavily to allow Norwegian products to compete on price. There may be some special permits required to import, I don't know the specifics.

AIUI, it's not illegal and there is nothing to pay if you're under the relevant limits and it's for personal use. You can import up to 6000NOK of goods (3000NOK if you've only been out of Norway for < 24 hours) and you can bring up to 10 kg combined of meat/cheese etc from EEA countries. That's quite a lot of butter. In fact, the 2nd link below is ambiguous on the point of whether dairy products other than cheese are included in the 10 kg limit, but you'd probably want to assume so to be safe. Either way, you can import a lot of butter for personal use.

http://www.toll.no/en/international/english/shopping-abroad/...

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