Comment by nonamemanemo | Hacker News Reader

Comment by nonamemanemo | Hacker News Reader

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Don't worry, you aren't the only one. I long to be transported to a time or place where humans weren't so accepting... no, seeking such blatant disrespect to their personal dignity and craft.

It seems to be one facet of a theme of infantilization and youth glorification in work culture and society at large. I am not sure whether it has any relationship with the rise of the "social" plague in industry, and the widespread infiltration of VC onto college campuses (and now elementary school playgrounds), where the youth are increasingly primed for dependency through the advertising and systematic denial of experiences.

Offices for adults these days are becoming more like playgrounds, and playgrounds for kids are becoming more like jails. I can't understand all the psychodynamics at play, but something is clearly broken with the way we treat our youth and our narrowly defined notions of "fun".

Work culture is not about the worker or the work anymore, it is about creating an interdependent unit of labor. But if neither the quality of work nor the quality of life for the worker is emphasized, I am not sure what the purpose is besides to maintain social order.

> playgrounds for kids are becoming more like jails

The solution to this problem is to revolt. Stop taking your kids to the playground. Get them helmets and a kickbike and go to the local skateboard park. Go out hiking with them, even if it's just 300 yards in a park. Run on the beach. Let them eat the sand. Give them proper rain clothing and boots so they can jump in puddles for hours on end. Teach them that there is no bad weather, just bad clothing. Show them how a socket wrench works. Let them "help" whenever you're doing something, if it's cooking or cleaning or repairing stuff or whatever. And for gods sake don't buy them a tablet.

DISCLAIMER: said activities may require physical exercise and actual parenting.

i cannot give this enough up-votes.

Without a tablet, how are they going to read the schematics to meaningfully help with projects?

It's never too early to teach your kids about the numerous advantages of schematics printed on dead trees.

I work in this youth glorified startup world. It's awfully critical to imply that those of us who enjoy the atmosphere are "seeking blatant disregard to their personal dignity and craft."

There's not as much drinking done as you would think and really it's either an after work hours thing or someone is coming in checking the place out and has a beer. It's really not a big deal. It's actually just more convenient because alcohol can loosen you up and means you don't have to go across the street to an expensive bar.

I believe you're taking an overly hard-lined approach to this. I work very hard, and so do many others. There's some who just dick around, but that's going to be in any office. I would ask you though, what's more conducive to meeting new people around the office? A light-hearted 5:00 / 6:00 drink at the bar right outside the work area where there's already other people drinking OR organizing everyone to go to a bar across the street and hope people show up OR just going to the bar?

WeWork is a great place because of the community it builds and you might very well argue it does that on the back of its kegs with taps labeled WeWork. Is this really so bad? Think about your typical startup who's struggling to get along. Isn't it better that they have others to talk to especially others who are going through the exact thing they are?

I genuinely think you can't understand all the psychodynamics at play because you're stubbornly holding onto your perception of a workplace should be. Hey to each their own, but I see a lot of positives in WeWork's approach.

I'm not as vociferous as the person you're replying to, but I'm starting to think of the all-consuming social scene of modern startups as one of the reasons why diversity is still a major problem in the tech industry. I don't think socializing with coworkers all the time--either in the office or outside of it--is healthy. It reinforces monoculture. I think it's healthier to have everyone socializing outside of the circle of people they see every day already. If the only friends you have are the people at work, then to whom do you turn for personal recommendations when you need to add people to the company?

If employees want to hang out with each other, that's fine. I just don't think it's a good idea, in the long run, for companies to be pushing like this.

Slightly off-topic - but how is diversity (or lack of thereof) a major problem in the tech industry? Is there any proof that it's a problem? Are there companies that have truly diverse workforce that are more successful than ones without?

I'm trying to consider how your comment is not an indication that you have actively hidden from the last several years of press and are stubbornly trying to deny there is a problem. This has been known for a long time and it is endemic across companies. http://www.techrepublic.com/article/diversity-stats-10-tech-...

Again - why is that a problem? There is certainly a statement of fact (there are relatively few blacks or hispanics in SV). How is this a problem? Is the goal of these businesses to make good products or provide employment to all society strata?

Should I be equally bothered by lack of whites in the NBA or the NFL?

You're absolutely right, it's not the goal of business to enact social reform. That's why it's the pervue of government to enact legislation to require it. Just as it's not the goal of business to avoid polluting our air or our water "as long as it doesn't affect the bottom line!" Just as it's not the goal of business to have its employees wash their hands after using the restroom before returning to cooking food. Negative externalities require regulation to correct when the market demonstrates a willingness to ignore the problem.

RE: the NBA and the NFL: Should the bad behavior of anyone be an excuse for others to behave poorly? Also, why has the MLB gotten more white, less diverse in recent years?

Right, but you are still avoiding the issue of proving (or explaining) how diversity is something that should be sought after. You think it matters and I do not.

I can see how we ought to have government mandated equal access. Ie someone should not have worse chance of being hired in SV because they are black or Mexican. But if the numbers of qualified candidates vary by a factor of 100 (how many black vs white or asian CS PhDs are coming out of the pipeline) - why is the lack of diversity a problem of the industry?

> But if the numbers of qualified candidates vary by a factor of 100 (how many black vs white or asian CS PhDs are coming out of the pipeline) - why is the lack of diversity a problem of the industry?

Where one of the driving factors beyond product development in the industry is "scratch your own itch and scale it out", lack of diversity of background (of which sex and race/ethnicity are components, but not the only important components) means lost potential markets, so its in the interests of those who want to invest in the new markets for the industry (e.g., most of the big players in the industry, and most of the investors in big and small players in the industry) to invest in broadening the funnel. It is, if not a problem of the industry, a problem for the industry.

(It also could be a symptom of a problem of the industry in which the industry itself takes action, without realizing the effect, which narrows its funnel, reduces the supply of talent attracted to the industry, and drives up costs.)

Ok - sure. That is a reasonable explanation (at least that I can not fault with being self-serving for a particular group).

But is there any proof for it that makes it more than a hypothesis? Is there any example of a company staffed by minorities that is more successful at serving those minorities?

Because all we really have are counterfactuals - I can't think of a single SV company that did well because it made a point of hiring from the underrepresented groups.

I have no perception of what a workplace should be. That is up to the individuals who actually do work together or alone. Apparently its some other people who have ideas of what a workplace should be because every workplace these days is the same generic adult playground (with free drinks and snacks and open collaboration!).

I would prefer if everyone just worked from home, or in a shared community workshop, or private studio, or coffee shop, or bar, or wherever they fucking want. WeWork is nothing more but a modern spin on Office Space culture. If people like that, I am happy it is another option available to those who enjoy working in that kind of space. Just make sure you don't think you have stumbled upon the holy grail of work spaces, and push it on everyone who is looking for work.

I'm not sure that alcohol and infantilization go together... or maybe I should revise my parenting methods.

Sounds like an awful lot like corporate speak.

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