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Comment by trapper | Hacker News Reader

Coordination is trainable absolutely, but people also tend to self select sports which they excel at naturally. What does that tell you?

Who would your money be on to learn baseball, weightlifting and cross country skiing: a swimmer or a gymnast?

You also may be interested in: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=swimming&id=...

Key quote: "I don't remember what it was, but I have scars all over my body just literally from falling all over the place"

The assertion about size in fights only holds when all else is equal, which is rarely the case. Gymnasts are extremely strong due to spending most of their training holding up their entire body in strange positions. Swimmers on the other hand are extremely weak (look in the literature if you don't believe me) due to the amount of time spent training supported by the water. Plus there are huge speed and explosiveness differences as well. I know where my money would be.

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In baseball, maybe the gymnast, but the extended reach of the swimmer and his/her ability to bat harder might win out. In weightlifting, definitely the swimmer. In cross country skiing, the gymnast, for the following reason.

Weight is proportional to the cube of body size (length) while muscular strength is proportional to body size. The strength/weight ratio is inversely proportional to the square of body size. As size increases strength increases proportionately but the power/weight ratio goes down rapidly.

Fleas are an extreme example: they can broad-jump like no person. Shorter people, like fleas, have an advantage in some sports (e.g., gymnastics) because of their higher power/weight ratio. This also makes a difference in endurance events where shorter people can sometimes perform exceptionally well because they expend less energy per mile.

Don't waste your money on old myths. Serious swimmers today do weight training. Big people are stronger than small people generally. If you don't believe me, pick a fight with a mean guy who's taller than you. Or better yet, pick a fight with a mean, tall competitive swimmer.

Did you even read the attached article? This is not an isolated case, as I mentioned with the olympic swimmers who were unable to ride a bike.

I'm not sure where you get your info from about "tall" people are stronger, perhaps you should tell that to the international weightlifting federation or the powerlifting federation. I'm sure they would be interested. Also, the UFC should just throw out all the smaller guys, and just select purely on height. :)

"Did you even read the attached article?"

Yes, I read the article, which states that Michael Phelps is clumsy. Anecdotal.

From your earlier post:

"Funny anecdote: a recent olympic swimming team failed to ride to the stadium in Beijing because most of them couldn't ride bikes."

I'm skeptical about this. I've been in Beijing traffic. Also consider the indignity: Olympic swimmers riding bicycles (not their sport) to the stadium, heads bowed over and the risk of falling on their face before thousands of people and getting injured. In contrast compare walking proudly upright, waving with both hands to the crowd. Claiming that one is not able to ride a bicycle seems like an excellent face-saving excuse for all parties involved.

"where you get your info from about "tall" people are stronger"

I got it in first grade on the playground. But it's also been in the literature for decades, if not centuries. http://lmgtfy.com/?q=muscle+strength+vs+height

The conclusion from the first URL http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1061

"The principal conclusions of this study are that muscle strength and height are related by a common factor and that muscle strength approaches absolute maxima at heights of ~183 cm for men and ~175 cm for women, at least using current training techniques."

a conclusion nicely illustrated by the first graph at http://jap.physiology.org/content/vol89/issue3/images/large/...

It's a common anecdote. Where do you think fish out of water comes from? You may be skeptical about the biking but it's a fact, I work with these people :)

In an ideal world height is directly related to strength obviously. Weightlifters spend 5-10+ years training, are genetically gifted for strength, maxed-out muscular potential. Swimmers aren't what I would call ideal candidates for this!

Also, read graph D. Swimmers are typically taller and have less cross sectional area than other athletes, which shows in their poor non-water fitness assessments (read the lit if you are interested). Gymnasts are shorter (170ish+-10) and have more cross sectional area for their size. I've worked with many sub elite gymnasts who went almost directly into national rankings in many sports (e.g. cycling, weightlifting, football, american football, track and field disciplines).

Influence of sports background on leg muscle coordination in vertical jumps:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12712802?ordinalpos=1&...

The book "sports talent" has some interesting tidbits for you as well.

Anyway, this has gone on long enough - let's agree to disagree :)

Anyway, let's agree to disagree.

"You may be skeptical about the biking but it's a fact, I work with these people :)"

Is it a fact? Who are "these people"? Perhaps there's a URL you could provide that tells authoritatively the story of how certain swimmers in Beijing decided to not ride bicycles?

"let's agree to disagree."

Nah. Your previous statements, vague evasions and dismissal of the obvious (even when backed up by evidence) incline me to believe you're merely stretching any truth you may possess and are not a reliable source of information. But then Robert Trivers seems to say we should expect that from everyone, so big dea.

Let's not continue this here. If you are really interested, go talk to any local sports scientist involved in professional or olympic level sport and ask them their expert opinion.

Or, put your email on your profile and I'll fill you in privately.

URL?

I don't follow. If you mean url to talk to a sports scientist you will probably need to just call into your local sports institute/academy and have a chat.

"You may be skeptical about the biking but it's a fact, I work with these people :)"

Is it a fact? Who are "these people"? Perhaps there's a URL you could provide that tells authoritatively the story of how certain swimmers in Beijing decided to not ride bicycles?

That URL

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