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Comment by ot | Hacker News Reader

The fact that this thread exists makes me want to move back to Europe.

It's really hard, for someone who grew up with state-provided healthcare, to understand how dealing with an illness involves decisions about employment.

To the OP: the system is deeply unfair, and you shouldn't feel bad for obtaining what in the rest of the civilized world is an unalienable right.

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I expect that there are people reading this thread for whom it is the last straw that makes them move back to Europe or Canada. And there are some Americans for whom this thread convinces them to emigrate for good.

The Internet is making the world a much smaller place where people know what life is like in other places. Over time, this forces everyone to raise their game. The old ideas of independent nation states are fading and being replaced by the global village in which we are all family.

As an Australian living in Canada, it shocks me that a thread like this even exists.

That someone has to consider money when they get diagnosed with a life-altering condition is saddening.

American in Norway here. I have been struggling with immigrant life the last year or so and recently started thinking seriously about moving home.

The existence of this thread reminds me that I absolutely should just suck it up do what it takes to stay.

Things have improved drastically in the past couple years. Small business insurance rates no longer depend on employee health costs, pre-existing conditions aren't a problem anymore, if you're not covered under an employer you can get a plan through the exchange, and if your income is low the premiums will be subsidized. It's basically moved in the direction of the French and German systems, except with for-profit insurance and without price controls on medical services.

Doctors in the Netherlands WILL NOT treat you unless you come in kicking and screaming whereas in the capital of Poland you will die in the waiting room waiting 12 hours to be seen by the ONE ER doctor on staff. You WILL DIE waiting for an ambulance because there are so few available and the onboard crew doesn't have any real sense of urgency. There are not even enough seats in the emergency hall for incoming patients so I had an IV drip while sitting on the floor next to the OR where a guy died inside while I was there. I ended up paying 80 dollars for the whole ordeal including a chest X-ray and I have no insurance over there. So yes it was cheap as hell but the treatment is extremely ghetto.

Free healthcare SEEMS good on paper. It is GARBAGE in reality. For example most sensible people in Poland pay an annual retainer fee for a private doctor network just for the PRIVILEGE of being able to see a doctor in that network if they need to. I am utterly terrified of going back to any hospital in Poland. God help the poor souls in all of the poorer countries. Those guys will make sure your heart keeps beating and lungs inflating but that's about it.

Stay in America and pay the price or go to Europe and die.

Comparing health care in the US (per capita gdp: $53k or so) to Poland (per capita gdp: $13k maybe?) is a dumb exercise. Healthcare in west europe is excellent -- often much better than the united states measured on outcomes. It is notably much cheaper too.

See a million links on the internet, or start here:

https://www.iom.edu/~/media/Files/Report%20Files/2013/US-Hea...

Dutch healthcare is definitely not free. In fact, I believe it's the most expensive in Europe, costing more than half of what US healthcare costs. And that's probably because much of it is privatized or semi-privatized.

There has been a problem with excessive waiting lists in the past, but ERs and general doctors have always been totally accessible.

Of course there are always budget issues, but at least they don't drive anyone into bankruptcy here.

> Stay in America and pay the price or go to Europe and die.

Despite their high cost of healthcare, life expectancy in the US is actually lower than in western Europe.

> The fact that this thread exists makes me want to move back to Europe.

I'm sorry to break it to you, but TTIP wants to export the "American" healthcare model to Europe. So maybe when you come back things are not to so great.

The draft text includes this section to avoid that:

"The EU reserves the right to adopt or maintain any measure with regard to the provision of all health services which receive public funding or State support in any form"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-3163...

Whose health care system has contributed most to research and development of increasingly successful diagnostic tests and treatments for cancer?

I don't know. You seem to know, so please provide evidence.

I don't know. Who? It's really hard to tell.

I think pharmaceutical companies produce a lot of them, but I wouldn't consider them a "health care system" as they are typically public companies, nor would I consider their IP to be a "contribution".

The large pharma companies are often in the US and Switzerland, but much of their revenues are not cancer related so it is hard to work out which one is doing the most.

But that should infuriate you!

America pays more per capita for their health system, and yet here's this guy struggling to know if he's going to be treated or not.

Cancer is a disease of mostly older people. They get treatment via medicaid / medicare. That "socialised" health care distorts US spending to the diseases of old age. It's certainly not US insurance that pays for that cancer research.

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