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> Many people who do not have access to an Apple computer will not be able to watch the stream.

Which they can if they find the stream address and put it in VLC. It's just HTTP live streaming[0], has been for a few years now. Recent Android device ought be able to understand it as well.

> Contrast with Google who stream their keynote on YouTube. So rather than being inclusive, the company is being exclusive.

Ah yes, the inclusivity of Google putting livestreams on their property, contrasted with the exclusivity of Apple putting livestreams on their property.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP_Live_Streaming little more than a bunch of video snippets (TS files) linked by a streamed m3u8.

Google live streams using Flash and doesn't support the open standard HTTP Live Streaming spec. So, it's really a bit weird. Apple is more open in this case, but not many things support the open standard (specifically: Chrome).

The Google I/O livestream via YouTube worked just fine in HTML5 for me. Last year too.

Oh, odd. Are you manually opted into the "HTML5 YouTube" version (is that still even an option or just the default for everybody now)? I had to manually "click to enable Flash plugin" to watch their I/O stream a few weeks ago in Chrome.

And, last I checked, Chrome doesn't support HTTP Live Streaming, so if you are using Chrome and getting live video without a pulgin, I'm not sure how it works?

Extra note: Chrome on Android does support, but Chrome-the-desktop-browser does not support HTTP Live Streaming. Computers are awful.

Javascript implementing MPEG-DASH: https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=109652#c...

To be fair, HLS is not an open standard. Apple has submitted it as an informational Internet Draft, but hasn't taken any further steps towards RFC status and doesn't encourage (or maybe even take) contribution.

Huh? Flash has supported HLS since around 2011, if memory serves.

Are we really to the point where a company explicitly stating that you need their hardware/software to view a stream, and requiring steps that normal people would be completely unaware of to circumvent is considered "equivalent" to Google using their system which can be viewed from any computer with zero additional work?

Well we're apparently to the point where a company can only be open if they use the proprietary broadcast platform of their biggest rival, so we're way past the stupid event horizon either way.

It's just a service. If YouTube live streaming is the best way to reach out to an audience, why not?

I'm sure Apple employees use Google.com to search the internet every single day, which creates revenue for Google...

Or are services from Google.com banned on the Apple campus? Does anybody know if this happens?

Maybe I missed something but I had to switch my user agent to an ios device just to get the stream url.

I can't fault them too much because people who are interested in this conference are iOs devs who would presumably need to have a Mac, but i don't appreciate being locked out.

Apple use HTTP Live Streaming (HLS) to broadcast live events. This is an entirely open standard. Indeed, it's super-simple to implement and use. AFAIK they submitted it as an Internet Draft, but I'm not sure it's gone anywhere.

HTTP Live Streaming is supported by more than just Apple devices – it'll work with recent Android devices too, and with VLC / other media players. I wouldn't expect Apple to certify the compatibility of the stream with other devices – sure, it might work, but would you expect them to explain the full gamut of software which might potentially be able to view the stream?

People get awfully worked up about this sort of thing without taking a small step back and thinking about it for a minute. This is not a horrible "let's ignore non-Apple users" conspiracy. It's just explaining the system requirements that Apple is targeting to the expected audience – basically all of whom will be using an Apple device.

Taken from a phone with 100% support for HLS

http://www.imgur.com/VvAhSEF.png

Here you go: http://p.events-delivery.apple.com.edgesuite.net/15pijbnaefv...

Since I imagine it's difficult to determine which devices support HLS in-browser, I guess they don't show the video.

It's trivially easy to detect in-browser (with mediaElement.canPlayType()). Modernizr detects HLS support out of the box.

uh huh.

and then you try to fullscreen on android and it breaks because android.

It's not like a conference like this could be used as a big long commercial to convince developers (or even consumers) to switch over. Instead it looks like their idea is to target those whom are already Apple customers to remain Apple customers. Seems a waste from that perspective. Unless they really are having a hard time with retention.

It's the web. Nobody certifies compatibility with all possible devices here.

It's not hard:

1. Don't outright block all non-Safari browsers out of arrogance.

2. When the stream fails, add to the compat message "…or any other browser that supports HTTP Live Streaming". Might even link to a list like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP_Live_Streaming#Supported_p...

Getting 2-3 other devices to test on shouldn't be too hard for one of the richest companies in the world.

Yeah this is depressing. I'm very interested in what Apple is doing, but I don't want it to be my driver.

I choose Windows and Android for various reasons (that I refuse to get into an argument here about), and so I'm completely unable to watch Apple's Keynote? Ridiculous.

You're able to watch it- just come back this after noon when the quicktime stream is posted. You're just not able to watch it live.

By definition, since you only have windows and android devices you're not an Apple developer, and not the target of WWDC.

Further, the technical reason behind this could be rectified by Google and Microsoft if they gave up their NIH stance regarding dynamic web video.

> not the target of WWDC

Someone that needs to come up with solutions that work across various operating systems, including iOS isn't a target of the developer conference?

Just because I don't personally own any Apple devices does not mean I don't ever do any Apple dev.

How can you do Apple dev without a device to test on?

Having a device to test on doesn't mean having a device to watch videos on. It could be in use for, you know, testing. Or it could be shared with other devs.

I'd rather watch on the PC that's plugged into my TV anyway and that's a Windows 8 box.

What about people who contribute to clang / llvm using linux as their primary platform?

Elsewhere in the thread [1], when someone did post the url to the livestream for people to view on non-apple devices, you said:

    This will give you a static stream, which means if your bandwidth dips or the demand spikes you may have problems.

    So don't complain if you have problems with it.

so, there seem to be technical issues with this "open" specification, that seems to be a hack atop m3us, if it requires a non-trivial amount of coding for it not behave like a 1998 copy of realplayer. Perhaps apple's spec is just crap.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9680220

You can watch the keynote. There's a stream address in source that you can copy to VLC on any platform.

I too am disgusted that Tim Cook's appreciation of social justice is not so intersectional as to include web browsers.

Considering it's a developer conference and Apple developers must have Apple hardware it makes sense as a way to let the people who need in in but not have to pay for the infrastructure required for everyone else to view. It would be nice if they opened it to everyone but considering they're not in the video streaming business in the way Google is it would be a waste of resources.

Yeah, I mean - it's not like YouTube's Live Streaming platform is open to everyone.

Not to defend Apple, but Google owns YouTube so it's not a stretch for Google to use YouTube. Not sure why Apple doesn't target a larger audience. It's free publicity.

Hardware/OS aside, it's amazing to see a high-profile webpage in 2015 merrily proclaiming itself to only work in only one browser. It's even more amazing to see some replies on HN defending it.

Apple is in the business of selling Apple hardware. Google is in the business of selling services across all hardware.

I don't find it surprising in the least that Apple requires you have an Apple device to watch their developer keynote.

Yes but when Microsoft pulls this kind of crap, they're demons. Apple is justified because what, they have prettier laptops for landing pages?

Microsoft is a convicted coercive monopolist. Apple is not. Does that clarify it for you?

Hm. While that's absolutely true, it probably seemed like more of a good zinger in 2000 than it does in 2015.

Some of us have long memories. Microsoft's ambitions for the longest time were to kill everyone else, not just be successful, but destroy everyone.

Say what you will about Apple, but they appear to be content to remain a niche player, focussing only on the top of the market, and don't seem to have any inherent need to wipe out open standards and destroying all their competitors.

Inclusivity when it fits their narrative.

Apple released an open protocol for dynamically scalable streaming that anyone could adopt. It is only with this protocol and the resulting increase in efficiency that they can deliver such a popular event at such volume. The number of people tuning in for WWDC is probably an order of magnitude more significant than Google io.

The choice is for technical reasons... if Google and others had embraced the technology, then Apple could stream to them.

Instead google and others have a Not Invented Here syndrome. Hell, Chrome which built its popularity on the back of Apple's open source Webkit (yeah yeah, webkit was built on top of an earlier open source framework, nothing wrong with open source) has instead decided to go its own way and forked things.

It's kinda silly to bash Apple like that.

Plus, remember the audience. This is a conference for Apple developers. If you're an Apple developer, surely you have an iPhone or iPad. How else do you test?

And if not, you can always watch the Quicktime / MP4 stream later.

> How else do you test?

More like: How else do you compile?

Pretty sure xcode cross compiles.

Indeed. This is infuriating. Apple should make it easier for me, a non-customer, to see the promotion of their products - not harder.

With Apple it's basically: "if you're already in our ecosystem we love you. If you're not, we hate you".

Well, screw you, too, Apple!. I'll happily continue to live outside of your ecosystem then.

Just use vlc.

Apples "streaming" is just 10 second chunks of video shunted across a m3u playlist. Its not exactly proprietary in that regard.

Also its a developer conference, what are you hoping to see in the live stream that makes you absolutely need to watch it or just abandon using apple products all together? Honestly I can't tell if this is a joke or not anymore on the internet. But I generally don't go into the google dev threads and just gripe about google, ditto microsoft.

Why the hell do we get this much uninformed junk comments on apple threads? Its getting to the point that I think most "social site junk" is really not worth the bother with all the same boring never going to change comments every time.