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Comment by 0xFFC | Hacker News Reader

Just curious , what's that suppose to mean in HN?

I found it interesting, and I think it has something to do with yesterday's The Atlantic article about Indians not saying "thank you" as much as the Americans or the English.

Now, about the article, and especially about this:

> T'aarof also governs the rules of hospitality: a host is obliged to offer anything a guest might want, and a guest is equally obliged to refuse it. This ritual may repeat itself several times (3 times)

the same "3-times" rule was also valid (and in some places it still is) in rural Romania until not that long ago. More exactly, if you had been invited to their table "only" once or twice by somebody else you had to say "no", only the third time were you allowed to say "yes" (if you really wanted to). It also created lots of awkward social situations after Communism fell and foreigners (mostly Westerners) first came to Romania. Lots of them would accept table invitations which were not really meant to be accepted on the first go.

The 3-times rule is still the roughly case in Ireland when you're offered something, and what the "ah go on go on go on" in the TV Show Father Ted was satirising.

What's interesting is when customs collide. For example my German relatives wonder why we keep asking them if they want something when they've already said no, whereas I'm waiting for them to offer another two times before I can say yes.

What do you do if the second or third time never come?

In some cultures, you make an admiring comment about the thing:

"That cake is very beautiful! It looks delicious!"

and the process can start over again.

There's an old joke I heard as a child in India: a kid who is going to attend a birthday party of a friend is instructed by his mother to refuse three times before accepting any food offered to him. When he is finally offered cake (after a long wait), all he can do is yell "NO NO NO" before grabbing the plate.

> Indians not saying "thank you" as much as the Americans or the English

Yes, cultural differences are sometimes strange.

Here in Germany most people are rather short-spoken. So if a German is nice to me, he probably likes me, otherwise he would not make the effort.

When I talk to English people, it feels like they are talking like Germans who like me, even if they just are like this to everyone. This feels very strange if I just met them or if they tell me unpleasant things. I often feel a bit deceived.

I've read the same about Russians. They're straightforward, no protocol, no unnecessary smile. Everything expressed is (or should be) genuine. Hence the 'russians are cold' feeling when they meet other cultures. Asian people smiles a lot, they have this mindset where smiling at someone make them happy and help relationships.

I think that there is some trade-off between "amigo" and "close friend" barriers.

For some countries (Germany, Poland, ...) the initial contact is icy, but after breaking the ice, it's easy to get straightforward to confessions, biggest dreams etc.

For other (e.g. Spain, USA, ...) the initial contact is warm, but it is somehow harder to became close friends (or at least - it's hard to tell).

At least for a Pole, it may work different way for different people. I am curious if it is possible to get some objective data on it (any ideas?).

And, as a rare counterexamples, for me it was usually warm/easy for Italians and cold/hard for the French.

Politeness is yet another layer, but not the same as warmth.

Having moved from New Zealand to England a couple of years ago, I've found that the English are less direct and more polite than people in NZ. I initially found it more difficult judging whether someone liked me because of the additional layer of politeness. I found it somewhat disingenuous, but I've become accustomed to it.

Similarly, I spent a few hundred hours in a social context with some people from North America recently and initially found it quite hard to judge whether they were being sincere or not. It's interesting that we perceive other (even relatively similar, as UK/NZ/USA are) cultures to be difficult to understand but can become quite used to them. I wonder if I might find New Zealanders to be quite direct now.

I face it A LOT with US people. I'm a Pole, and this additional layer of "politness" presented by US is quite difficult and strange. Especially that I observed that such short lived enthusiasm shown on meetings is not followed by long term behaviour (and does not represent real feeling of US person, but is hard to get at start).

IT's nice at start, and while it last, yet it's quite a difference I observe. I wonder if they find us cold and impolite during such encounters.

p.s. I for one don't agree that US 'thank you' equals the very word presented in many europeans language dictionaries. My theory is that it underwent substantial inflation and lose a lot of value underway. It's given everywhere and for things it should not (as they're normal). Yet another cultural difference nice to be aware :)

Although I understand your question, it was a very interesting article about an idiomatic social device, human relationships and how you reach open / honest communications level.

To help HN audience acquiring knowledge in human communication or polishing up their people skills.

We all know that techies in general are not the best oral communicators out there. So, this piece and many others like the one submitted yesterday about the different perspectives for words of courtesy between India and the USA and how they affect or color whether in positive or negative light communication between people of different cultures and backgrounds.

So, I'd say please post more of these topics here for the benefit of everyone.

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