Comment by zxcvvcxz | Hacker News Reader

Comment by zxcvvcxz | Hacker News Reader

An interesting comment I saw in this thread is the suggestion to take medication [presumably to make working a job easier / more manageable].

To this I say -- are you fucking kidding?

Working like we do is already fairly unnatural. Taking medication to allow yourself to continue doing something unnatural, which you don't even like, has to be the one of the most dehumanizing things I can think of. That's modern day, self-induced slavery if you ask me.

And yes, I have experience with this. In college, I met with a psychiatrist about depression-related symptoms. I described my life circumstances (school, work, relationship, etc), and after just one 45-minute session he prescribed me SSRIs. They did nothing, except creates horrific withdrawals as I started coming off them. Then I made the real changes: I ended my toxic relationship, quit my cubicle job, and used my savings to have an enjoyable life for about a year. Then I finished school.

The OP seems to have had a pretty sweet set-up (remote, high-paying job, etc) but misery is still misery. Another comment mentioned burn-out. In my experience burn-out rarely has to do with the volume of work, but rather the mental anguish experienced. I've been burned out working 9 to 5; and energized beyond belief working 12 hour days on my own business.

Here's some advice worth considering for those in similar situations. Quit your job, or figure out how to go part time. Your company won't mind, you're quite replaceable most likely. Really cut down on your expenses; get roommates if you have to (this can be more than a financial improvement -- socializing and having good friends improves your quality of life).

And my god, quit consumer culture. That thing you think you need to buy with your next paycheck? You probably don't. What you need is: a roof over your head, food, laptop/phone, and a gym membership. What's the grand total of all this, maybe $1K/mo? (Depends where you live I suppose.) I'm assuming you're a single mid-late 20s male if you're reading this. What else would do you really need to be happy and spend your time working on your own tech projects?

Best of luck to the OP and anyone else doing something similar.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience with the prescriptions you tried, and that they didn't work for you. But don't take that to mean you should lash out at others suggesting it might help this person, or someone else. I think it's a mistake to assume you know exactly what the OP's problem is, what solutions would work, and what solutions won't. There's a good chance he himself doesn't even fully understand why his mental state is what it is, and it could involve things besides his shitty work life. It is very possible that medication could help. I understand prescription drugs can be abused, or over-prescribed. But don't denigrate the notion entirely. Responding to the idea with "are you fucking kidding?" is out of line.

The notion that one should consider pharmaceuticals as a solution to not deriving happiness from a desk job really is outrageous. And that's just from a statistical standpoint. It's very unlikely to be the "right" solution for that person.

Same goes for ADHD medication for boys (yes, predominantly boys) in grade school because they can't sit still and concentrate as they're expected at such a young age. I find it absurd how commonplace this is becoming. Humans have not fundamentally changed their genetic makeup in the last few hundred years. It's much more likely the case that the environment has become unreasonable, rather than that the kids are failing their roles as humans.

But wait, if you want mindless drones who do as they're told, contribute to bottom lines, buy shit they don't need to satisfy misery they don't understand, then by all means, humans are failing. Let's fix that. Let's over-medicate. Let's teach people how to cope with a life devoid of meaning and passion.

These are the trends I see when I tune into mainstream narratives and general societal expectations. And it pisses me off. Can the right medication help a small subset of the population who are a few standard deviations off in terms of brain chemistry? Of course it can, that goes without saying. Doesn't mean we're not facing some disturbing trends in the developed world.

And I'll express myself however I please within HN's guidelines, thank you very much.

The issue is that this post screams clinical depression to me. Yes, he's also describing a shitty job, one that he will probably benefit from quitting. But it is also common for the feelings he's having to be the result of more than just a shitty job. Also, people in healthy mental states prevent these situations before they get to the breaking point. There's so many factors to consider, and none of us have all the information. For that reason, it should not be off the table to suggest he at least consider seeing a trusted and reputable doctor, and it is irresponsible for you to dismiss that idea entirely.

> But wait, if you want mindless drones who do as they're told, contribute to bottom lines, buy shit they don't need to satisfy misery they don't understand

Jesus, what a straw man that is. My approach here is to suggest ways for this man to find contentedness, maybe even happiness. That can validly include medication. Yours is to push an agenda against a type of work life you don't like.

I don't see it that way at all, and I'd like to suggest that attempting to diagnose clinical depression from a blog post seems a bit ridiculous. She doesn't sound depressed; she sounds like someone happy to be mostly financially independent and able to pursue whatever projects she wants, not something someone else is telling her to do.

I've felt very similarly over the past few years, and I'm working to build enough of a war chest to make it a reality. I'm not depressed, I'm not burned out (at least not in a general sense; I do occasionally burn out on specific aspects and feel the need to pull back)... I just don't derive too much pleasure building the same things over and over for other people who don't actually understand technology work and have different priorities than I do. I've been much luckier at my current job, but I still feel that way occasionally.

> who don't actually understand technology work and have different priorities than I do

I'm no expert or anything, but I expect this is pretty much the same in any industry. People really don't care about your work until they need something or you're blocking them.

I pretty much agree with what you're saying, I just take issue with zxcvvcxz using the mere suggestion that it could be something more, and something that might be helped by medication, as an excuse to deride the entire concept of (responsibly) using medication to treat depression when appropriate.

I believe you're missing the point of my comments entirely, probably because you got offended at my tone. That's alright, I realize that I write provocatively.

To quote what I wrote above,

>Can the right medication help a small subset of the population who are a few standard deviations off in terms of brain chemistry? Of course it can, that goes without saying. Doesn't mean we're not facing some disturbing trends in the developed world.

I am not deriding "the entire concept of (responsibly) using medication to treat depression when appropriate."

Rather what I'm suggesting is that the vast majority of people in the OP's situation, or something analogous, are not these brain-chemistry outliers who require medication. Instead, I suggest that the unnatural environment created by office cubicle/computer wage slavery runs counter to human nature, particularly with respect to one's happiness.

I hope it is very clear at this point what I am saying, and that I am not deriding the use of all medication, but rather, speaking with respect to a particular environmental example.

> What you need is: a roof over your head, food, laptop/phone, and a gym membership.

Erm... what about I don't know the most human thing before all that... some companionship?

Frankly, i find thats actually the real reason for most of these burnouts/crashes. Humans are the most social creatures in the world and this trait is diminished by our tech culture.

Oh yeah, I totally agree. My point is that limiting yourself to the basic necessities that cost $$, while reducing your wage slavery, will enable a much more fulfilling social life.

How many times have you bailed on friends, or skipped meetup-type events because you're just too drained from doing shit you don't want to do for half your waking hours?

People love medication these days. Mention any alternatives (increased exercise and sleep that studies have proven work as well as drugs), and you'll get denounced in many forums.

That works both ways. zxcvvcxz just denounced someone for suggesting medication. And it sounds like you're looking down your nose at the idea, too.

Both medications, and lifestyle changes could help. It depends on the situation and the person.

>That works both ways. zxcvvcxz just denounced someone for suggesting medication.

Given the context of trying to use it to cope with a job that makes one miserable. Is that really so difficult to understand? Obviously I don't denounce all medication use in general, and I'm only referring to a fairly specific situation (of the OP).

>Both medications, and lifestyle changes could help. It depends on the situation and the person.

And given the situation of one being miserable with their job, I believe that medication is in general not the right answer. At least statistically I reckon it's the wrong answer in the majority of cases. Certainly it's not necessary, even if forking over the money could help one cope. The whole point of my post is -- why would one want to cope in this type of environment in the first place?

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