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Comment by davidw | Hacker News Reader

> mountain biking

A heavy, shod horse tromping around and pooping all over the place is going to do far more trail damage than mountain bikes.

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I wonder if that's true. It's incredible how deep chutes get dug on heavily used mountain bike trails. They might contribute more heavily to erosion because the surface area is so much smaller. Sort of how a woman in high heels has more pounds per square feet exerted compared to an elephant. Also probably depends on the terrain.

A ref: https://www.imba.com/resources/research/trail-science/enviro...

The damage is to the serenity enjoyed by the people hiking or horseback riding, not the trail itself.

That's just everyone's preferences rather than anything objective then. Perhaps those horseback riders damage the serenity of the mountain bike riders or the hikers by crapping all over the trail. Well, their horses, I mean.

Also, remember that horses are not an indigenous species in recorded history in North America.

It's also good to remember that deer, bear, and untold numbers of other species crap all over the trail also. That hasn't ever been an impediment to my backpacking.

People aren't indigenous to the americas either, having introduced ourselves but a dozen or two thousand years ago.

I don't think one should consider nativity very much when deciding if something is good or not in a given context. More what the impact is, irrespective of nativity.

Never the less, bikes are even less native than horses... At least horses are organic.

Also, there was a point where the Earth existed but humans didn't exist. So yes, appeals to nature are always weak.

As a hiker, I would much rather step aside for an occasional biker than deal with the huge, easily startled, smelly beasts that shit all over the trails.

I also think most people would deal with a biker than a bear :)

As a hiker I would much rather step aside for a slow moving well trained animal then dive out of the way for a mountain biker going downhill way over the posted speed limit around sharp corners.

But there are probably an order of magnitude (or two) fewer riders than bikers.

Maybe, but the horse riders have boatloads of money (In my experience), attend meetings, and have historical precedent on their side. Mountain biking is still new.

Horse riders can always look back to a time when what they now do for sport used to be the only form of transit.

I come from a family of horse riders, and am a mountain biker. Really, it is completely possible to get along and share the trails. Obviously, some trails are only going to work for mountain bikes, and some are much nicer for horses (and boring for bikers).

I'd love to see horse riders required to clean up after their horses, just like dog owners clean up after their dogs. It's your pet, clean up.

Horse shit is mostly grass and other plants and doesn't really smell much. It will rain away or compost to dirt much quicker than smelly dog poop. But yeah, might be an idea to shuffle it out of the trail.

The horseshit is awful on the trail up Half Dome. It may not smell that bad to someone who loves horses, but I assure you it smells to someone who doesn't.

It's still shit. When I have to avoid it while biking or walking, it interrupts the tranquility of my enjoying the trail.

On a more serious note, a major problem with animal feces on trails that are shared with bikers is the risk it poses when you run it over, and it splatters all over the place. If it gets in your mouth, or on the nozzle of your water bottle or camelback, you can get sick.

In may be purely aesthetic, with no basis, but as a hiker I hate sharing a trail with cyclists. In a weird unsubstantiated way, I feel like horses are like other hikers. I've never had a horse like, gallop by me on a trial.

This is the number one reason why I hate sharing trails with cyclists. I've never seen a horse going over 6MPH, which is a light jogging speed, and they tend to go even slower downhill. Set a universal speed limit of 10mph on the trail at all times, which is a reasonable upper limit for horses and trail runners, and I don't think you'd see many cyclists.

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