Comment by igravious | Hacker News Reader

Comment by igravious | Hacker News Reader

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Which is exactly the point Zizek was making. You (in the guise of a so-called technocrat) say that your position is not ideological -- "contracts must be adhered to" according to you -- "while the EU technocrats talk as if it is all a matter of detailed regulatory measures" according to the article. Notice a similarity?

So, no. Contracts do not have to be -- and indeed, frequently -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_default#List_of_sove... are not adhered to.

You wish poverty on millions? You wish social unrest? You wish the perpetuation of an unjust financial state of affairs then.

I've said this until I'm blue in the face, the €zone as it exists cannot function without fiscal transfers. That requires _political_ redress. Until that happens sovereign states within the €zone are not playing on a level playing field. Each state gave up a lever of power (sovereign currency) to join the club and a similar virtual lever must be established in return (fiscal transfers). Within the USA there are fiscal transfers. Between regions in sovereign states (Germany, UK, Spain, etc.) there are. The €zone has got to have them.

But nooo - "Pacta sunt servanda". That simple is it? Give me a break.

> You wish poverty on millions? You wish social unrest? You wish the perpetuation of an unjust financial state of affairs then.

I don't wish poverty on millions (or even on one). I don't wish social unrest. But I also don't wish to force the rest of Europe to keep throwing money into a sinkhole. That would also be to "wish the perpetuation of an unjust financial state of affairs".

Greece needs more than just an infusion of money. It needs more than just debt forgiveness. It needs a transformation of its society, government, and politics. Only Greece can do those things - the EU can't do it for them. Currently, to this outsider, it looks like Greece refuses to even try to do so. But they complain about the cruel Europeans who will let Greek children starve in the streets. Well, it seems to me that Europe is much more willing to help those who at least try to help themselves.

Sorry if this seems heartless. As I said, I am an outsider - not just to Greece, but to Europe. This is my perception from afar. But even with the best will in the world, it appears to me that no outsider can really do much to help Greece until Greece is willing to see that it must change.

    You wish poverty on millions?

How much does Greece have to pay per year? I think it's something like $5bn? AFAIK they have a GDP of $300bn and $100bn of that are converted into taxes. Why would paying $5bn result in poverty of millions then? Isn't their spending on military alone in the billions?

The unemployment rate is well over 20%.

If more austerity measures are imposed the rate of unemployment will go up even more. This translates to increased poverty. Those repayments have to come from somewhere else within the Greek economy. That somewhere else will have a knock-on hardship.

If that is the case then Greece should default and leave the €zone. But that is not a great outcome. As the next weakest economy will come under fire. Also, others will be reluctant to join the €zone.

Restructuring and short- to mid-term solutions kick the can down the road. Ultimately a fair system of fiscal transfers needs to be put in place. Loans are _not_ fiscal transfers. Like it or not the €zone is in this together now.

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