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Comment by agumonkey | Hacker News Reader

Part of the reason Nintendo was not hungry to jump on the 3D bandwagon. Most of the 3D games on PS1 launch were very hazardous, messy and bland. If it wasn't for the technology prowess of the day nobody would have bought them.

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Actually, Nintendo were releasing 3D games even before the PS1. Starfox was the first poly 3D game from Nintendo and was released in 1992, at least a year, maybe more, before the PS1.

I also recall a 3D pacman game on the SNES that was hella fun.

Lets not confuse a 2D game using 3D models with one that allow free(-ish) movement in 3D space.

Starfox was a rail shooter that used 3D models rather than scaled sprites.

the more complicated stuff came with third person shooters and similar. Where you either had fixed cameras, thus having the controls shift between "cuts", or the camera on its own control (tap your head and rub your tummy style).

Mario Kart N64, Super Mario N64 and Goldeneye N64? All 3D game not made by sony at the time of the PS1? Maybe the best in the world? 3D is awesome when made correctly and not trying to reproduce a movie.

Come on the N64 came far later, and that was my point. And it was all over the place how Mario 64 gameplay was tailored, camera viewpoint and everything. Many games at the PS1 launch had the cam lost in translation somewhere between polygons, or just point at a weird angle.

It's somewhat amusing to think of the N64 being cited when the parents replied to are about 3D environments complicating the control schemes.

Most of the people who encountered the N64 did not know how to hold the controller at first glance. This was made worse by the fact that practically every game has a different idea about how the controller was to be used. Nintendo had to settle a court-case by distributing gloves to players complaining of friction injuries.[0] .

This was mostly because developers didn't know how to deal with the control schemes of 3D environments very well, and Nintendo was planning for what they considered to be needed in the future : more controls.

There's very likely a reason that the M shape was never used for controllers again, however it did leave a lasting legacy in the form of trigger buttons (not shoulder buttons), which are now practically a universal controller feature.

[0] : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_64_controller

> it did leave a lasting legacy in the form of trigger buttons

Also analog sticks, which are even more important.

I really liked the N64 controller --- I still think it's one of the most comfortable ever. The asymmetrical shape when using it analogue mode felt really nice in the hands. I've never felt happy with the dual-stick PS ones.

I'm pretty sure I saw someone being vapourised by one in an episode of Lexx, too.

I've always felt like I need 3 hands to use it. It is like 2 controllers welded together. In more complex games I have to constantly change my grip from the outside left to the middle position and I've just never gotten used to it.

...there are games which use the analogue stick and the D-pad? They shouldn't do that --- you're supposed to hold it either by the two outside wings, with d-pad and buttons; or by the middle and the right-hand wing, with analogue stick and buttons. Using the analogue stick and the d-pad makes no sense, for exactly the reasons you say.

I kinda recall FPS using the paddle that way. d-pad for position, analog for aiming.

Okay, let me rephrase: the N64 controller has designed for people with at most two hands. Use the d-pad with the left hand and the analogue stick and trigger with the right hand is fine. Requiring the use of the buttons as well is not.

Oh right, constant switching must be pretty bad.

I couldn't use the right hand buttons to save my life. Big low, tiny high, counter intuitive to my fingers.

Yes! Yes I did! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Bpg2HkVdI4&t=1m00s

There were occasionally minigames in Mario Party or similar games that required you to rotate the control stick as quickly as you could - the stick was not padded, so you could really hurt your thumb (or the palm of your hand, if you chose to use that).

I'd imagine the friction lawsuit had something to do with that.

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