Caveman_Coder

It acts as a coolant as well as winding insulator.

I completely agree. I don't use FB for anything other than keeping up with my family that live in different states. I don't have any casual friends on FB, and especially not co-workers. For seeing pictures of my nieces and nephews and various family gatherings that I can't be a part of FB works fine. But I don't follow any brands or willingly subject myself to advertising...all the stuff that FB wants you on their platform for I willingly ignore.

We've probably hit peak FB...or perhaps FB has jumped-the-shark using your TV series comparison...either way, any news about the decline of FB is good in my book.

So I guess the owner doesn't really "own" the building if enough people come and draw pictures on the side of it then...

I was asked about that kind of "programmer universe" stuff during my interview process with my current employer. I said I didn't have a GitHub, never been to a programming conference, didn't participate in the local dev scene, and didn't really program on my free time. I said in my free-time I like being outside, hiking, camping, and fishing...It didn't hurt me because I got the job, of course, I'm working for a utility company and not some flashy SV/NY tech startup...

Is there any data comparing those with a 4 year degree vs those with a 2 year degree? I'd be interested in seeing that comparison.

You make a good point, but how would all the meddling middle managers keep tabs on their employees and the work they're doing?

Managers/VPs/Executives of techies...

> "Home renovation is also where a lot of bottom-feeders end up. It's very easy to do and doesn't require much skill to get into."

When I was talking about skilled trades I was mainly referring to your union/licensed/Journeyman types. We had continued training programs to keep up with latest NEC/NFPA/ASHRAE/ASME changes. We also had the option of teaching at the union hall (all apprentices work normal days and go to training at the hall on Tues/Thurs) to earn a little bit extra money.

I've met good craftsman as well as lazy ones, but like you said, now that I'm a full-time developer, the same still holds in our industry as I'm sure it does in most industries.

What's changed is that while there are groups advocating for pretty much every group, poor white men are lumped into the same category as rich white men, and are seen as "not needing help" or being a part of the "ruling hierarchy" even though they are poor. I think that is what OP was getting at, that is, by looking first at race/gender, before class, you're alienating a whole group of poor white males that don't see themselves as part of the dominant "white male" narrative. They're struggling just like all the other poor people, but told they "have it good" because they're white, and this is contrary to what they experience day-in and day-out.

I went the trades route because I didn't have any concrete plan for college when I finished high school and I wanted to get some form of gainful employment so an electrical apprenticeship seemed like a good idea until I figured out something else.

I have been in a union before (nearly a decade of industrial electrician/power plant operator work before I obtained my CS degree). You bet there is corruption in some unions, but perhaps it is different in the "skilled trades" though, at least it seems that way from my personal experience.

Avoiding blue collar work is a primary motivation for my transition to full time software dev...we'll see how it turns out though because the office culture/work environment is very foreign to me in many ways.

That is probably part of it, but the work they'll be doing is more labor intensive. I was a union electrician/power plant operator for nearly a decade before I finished my degree in CS and took a job as a software developer. I'm not in SV/NY/Seattle so my pay is roughly equal to what I was making as a topped-out Journeyman, but the work is less stressful on the body.

In the trades, after the job was over or I had turned over to the oncoming shift operator, I didn't think about work at all until my next shift, it was great, my off-time was mine. It was much better mentally compared to now where I have to have my phone on me at all times and respond to emails from our customers (granted, my customers or Transmission System and Distribution System operators controlling the electrical grid, so it is pretty critical when the applications experience issues). There are pros and cons of each, with pay being roughly equal (outside of the major tech hubs). Am I glad I switched? Sometimes, but the skilled trades (electrician, pipe-fitter, plumber, HVAC tech, welder, etc.) are definitely a good way to go if you want to learn a useful skill and have a relatively stable middle class life.

This is just the current zeitgeist we live in right now. In my prior career as an electrician, I didn't see any of this brought up by my employer/industry, but now that I'm a software developer, I see it all the time. I think that might be because the work of an electrician is more physical and labor-intensive, and therefore not very enticing to a lot of women looking to enter the workforce.

TLDR: "Facility management employment continues to grow, as does demand for advanced technology in buildings...For now, it does not appear that automation will lead to significant job losses in the industry. However, facility and building managers need to address other, more critical issues, such as training employees to be prepared to use rapidly advancing technology and attracting more talent to the industry."

> "This isn't helped by the software industry's reputation (well deserved, in my opinion) of being populated by arrogant people with little or no tact or empathy."

I don't get this attitude at all, but perhaps that is because I transitioned into software dev from the trades. In the trades you want your apprentices to ask questions, I don't see why Senior Devs would be assholes. In my experience, when I asked my Senior Devs questions, and this was after initial research efforts on my part, they were all receptive and helpful. It is much better to ask the question as a Junior than commit to prod and create even more work for the Seniors.

You're absolutely correct on this point. My first job after obtaining my CS degree was "Senior Developer" even though I had never developed software professionally before. I got the Senior title because the company had their pay buckets tied to titles so in order for the company to bring me on at the rate I requested, they gave me the Senior title. Titles apparently are nonsense, at least from what I've seen.

Have you ever been in a union?

> "...pout over not getting enough money"

You're trying to make striking sound childish but there are plenty of legitimate reasons why unions go on strike.

> "loosen immigration restrictions on the people of our industry"

I don't think a U.S. union would try to loosen immigration restrictions...they'd care about protecting the rights of U.S. workers...also, why would a union representing U.S. workers want to increase the labor supply?

Personal story time...

I was a journeyman electrician for nearly a decade before obtaining my CS degree. The company that hired me, in order to pay me what I was making as a topped-out journeyman, brought me in as a Senior Developer (and its corresponding pay "bucket"). This was my first job actually developing software and I was, in title, a "Senior Developer," even though I knew next to nothing other than what was covered in my college curriculum.

TLDR: Titles don't mean much...

> "well, but what would we need to fight for as a union?"

Improved compensation, benefits, bonuses, stock options, paid conferences, training, etc...

So I've read through most of the complaints listed here and it seems like having a Software Developer Union would be one way to go. You could then have your jr devs undergo an apprenticeship similar to how we did it in the trades (5 years to become a Journeyman).

Do you think the nature of the employer-employee relationship is civil to begin with?

> "We elect people on the basis of trusting they will do the right thing"

That's not currently working too well for us...

Do people actually find these languages interesting? I mean, what's the point of them?

Been there done that, its tough but it gets a lot better when you get out of the military.

I deleted my FB a few years ago too. I ended up getting back on and only connecting with close family that live out of state. I don't follow any brands or watch any corporate content either. I still find value in it because I can see the cool pictures my sister posts and quickly send out family updates. I'd never connect with casual friends from college or co-workers though.

That's what I've done. Professional contacts/co-workers on LinkedIn (not that I use it all that much anyway), and family on FB (since I don't live in the same state I can use it to still see pictures my sister posts).

> "What are these jobs that you think will resist robotic automation, and how many of them will there be?"

Trades like plumbing, electrician, lineman, P&C technician, mechanic, power plant operator, transmission/distribution operator, welder, etc...

Agreed. I don't have a Github, contribute to open source projects, go to conferences or meetups or any of that stuff on my off-time. When asked about it in interviews I tell them about the kind of projects I've done, and that's pretty much it. Its a straight forward agreement, I'll give my time and expertise (C/C++) and you'll pay me a fair amount. I'm not going to act like my life is all about programming because that would be a totally sad life in my opinion.

> but there are businesses that depend on Facebook stores without physical address and use Facebook to target users and connect with customers

My original comment still stands though. FB's timeline changes might damage those business that rely solely on FB, sure. That's to be expected if you're built around someone else's platform that you have zero control over. It still doesn't mean the "death of small businesses."