HacklesRaised

Checks out that this is a government deal, crappiest vehicle possible for the most money!!

Seems like you dodged a bullet.

It is a quandry, the kernel is predominantly C, Rust has demonstrated a path forward, producing safer code without sacrificing performance, but it is undeniable that a mixed code base is far harder to maintain, not impossible.

Here's the thing, in the next couple of years languages like Carbon, Zig, even Jai, will come of age. They will have their proponents and people who want to introduce them into kernel code.

If there is a rust developer out there who doesn't resist the introduction of these languages as ardently as the chosen people (C) are resisting rust, then I will show you someone who lives in some kind of alternate reality.

Personally, I'd be pressuring the C committee to introduce defer, tout suite, otherwise Zig looks favourite. But the reality is that your preferred language is just that, your preferred language, most have seen this drama before and will choose not to participate.

As to whether Linus is failing in his leadership role? Nah, Then again, I wish Sony would open source the PS OS and we can be done with this juvenile debate as to which OS should rule the world. Either that or let's have an exokernal and move on from this monololithic story, surely that would meet the needs of the MY FAVOURITE LANGUAGE isn't appreciated crowd!!

To be fair we are talking about an area of the country that is prone to seismic activity, it does limit the building materials.

Perhaps what should be more commonly accepted is that the US is a land of great natural beauty! And large tracts of it should be left to nature.

What's the average monthly leccy bill in Phoenix during the summer? $400?

Where does LA get most of its water? Local sources? I don't think that's the case.

New Orleans is a future Atlantis.

San Francisco is a city built by Monty Python. Don't build it there it'll fall down, but I built it anyway, and it fell down, so I built it again...

Pretty simple formula, there simply isn't a market for an $x upcharge on mail and docs, but we have to be part of this latest grift so we'll charge everyone $x - y which is a rounding error. Except it's not. At some point someone is going to admit they have bet the farm on improved auto complete.

This is awesome, think of the opportunity! 41% of companies will behave entirely predictably and will be ripe to have their markets plundered.

Strange that the developer sphere of the W3 industry is not dominated by, you know, W3.

<warning snark-level="epic" generalization-level="expansive">

Perhaps if they weren't gluing together unaudited components, with a programming language designed to obsolete the blink tag, using the most expensive laptop on the planet they'd be less profligate with a users resources.

</warning>

Things are no better in the game industry and the days of Avie requiring engineers to develop on hardware more representative of users machines are long gone.

I wonder if that fundamental change involves sacking their entire executive team for their incompetence and mismanagement, or whether they'll just shove it down the throats of regular employees?

All I'll say is:

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

If only it were that simple!! Isn't the central problem that you're not allowed to sell in anybody elses house. I mean, if you're prepared to accept that you are leasing the device and that the lease will dictate what you can add can't do with the device, then I think your position holds, otherwise, it's a little tenuous.

^^^^^

I think there are plenty of people who have the same uncomfortable feeling.

I used to see this sort of thing a lot at Apple and I used to classify the people concerned as those that work AT Apple rather than people that work FOR Apple.

A software glitch didn't ruin lives, a duplicitous organization with dishonest people at the helm ruined lives. The problems with Fujitsu's system were widespread and understood but the Post Office pursued these people regardless. It should come as no surprise that the money they fleeced from these helpless victims likely went to executive pay. We all know that capitalism is a terrible system, it's just better than any other system that has been proferred, but profit motive brings out the very worst in people.

Betrand Meyer is coming for you... ;-)

He's not, he would respect your opinion, but design by contract was on of the key foundations of Eiffel, and I have a soft spot for Eiffel.

Given karismatic a prize.

I wonder if the current state of affairs is what Chris L had in mind?

I think sometimes this exact point is lost in the context of a collection of programs that represent a system rather than simply in the context of a single program.

Out of the frying pan, into the fire!

Whatever performance means is really interesting. One of the few unquestionable benefits of cloud computing is that it is now easier than ever to measure the 'running' cost of a program / solution.

What Amazon charges for, say a t2.nano must factor in the cost of the hardware, power, cooling, and system adminstration, so it is technically possible to evaluate the running cost of a piece of software.

If I, as the ruthless capitalist that I am pretending to be, made the running cost of the solution an integral part of annual remuneration, through bonus calculation say, there will be a tipping point when that cost has an impact on techology strategy.

I know it sounds remote but a similar scheme has/was implemented in some investment banks, where bonus calculations introduced a vesting schedule and factored in the back office cost of maintaining the trade over its lifetime rather than being based entirely on revenue.

Let's start with a totatally reasonable caculation made by a non technical user , with absolutely no understanding of the problem at hand, and by that I mean completely unfair and arbitrary, so pretty much the real world.

The TechEmpower multiple request benchmarks tell me that Rust is the performance king. Go offers about 2/3 that performance, and python 1/3, that bit doesn't sound too unreasonable, perhaps a little unkind to Go, but I digress; given these relative performance numbers, if the running cost bonus pool is $x, the maximum amount you will receive for a python based solution is 1/3x.

At what point does the financial impact influence our technology strategy in a way that perhaps our otherwise virtuous proseltysing about the need to reduce our carbon footprint doesn't?

FWIW I am continually suprised that Jon Blow, Casey Muratori , Mike Acton et al, aren't beating exactly this drum. It's not that their arguments about writing high performance software are not compelling in their own right, but appealing to peoples otherwise orthogonal concerns / passions seems to be a logical next step.

Sorry to ramble on!!

I think most people will have concerns about whether they can pull it off from a performance perspective. I am hoping that, just as UEs lead over unity, at least in the 3D space, is because it was developed as a consquence of creating games, rather than as a means to create games (if that makes sense), perhaps Verse will enjoy that same advantage in that the impact of memory management, automatic or otherwise, will be constantly evaluated with the end goal in mind, they won't lose sight of the woods for the trees, so to speak.

Not suprising to hear three things:

1. The best programming language is the one you are probably using at the moment, although it assumes you would pick the right langauge for the job at hand.

2. Mixed language projects are problematic.

3. The ability to migrate ownership of a codebase and bring new engineers up to speed is very important.

I think we all recognize these things as self evident but, I certainly, have not always had the discipline to keep front and centre.

Under whose leadership did this state of affairs come to be? Pathetic!!

It's unfortunate but true, there will be a lot of dross retained because they are seen as 'team players'. To me that translates to 'incapable of independent thought' and certainly not capable of pulling your ass out of the proverbial fire when push comes to shove.

Might be worth a conversation with Glen Fieldlers crew, perhaps a less naive presentation might follow.

I quit after orientation, spent the whole time arguing that their ten principles were contradictory, whilst the broken remnants of Microsoft's silicon valley campus sat there, happy to have whatever crumbs Amazon were throwing them. When I told my manager I wouldn't be staying, he congratulated me!! Your can see it in their products, mediocrity by design.

My wife calls my stubborness 'Cultural Stamina', I think it's an excellent phrase that always raises a smile.

I really enjoyed Haskell when I tried it years ago (2004) and I definitely agree that Rust is much more apropos to the mainstream.

That's a really helpful perspective. Thanks.

My CVE comment was very much tongue in cheek.

I did ok with Rustlings and I read the 'The Book', I'd say I am largely struggling with async and lifetimes.

I have spent most of my career in C, C++, Objective-C and have recently tried Zig, which I enjoyed, possibly because of it's brevity, and I read through the Jakt programming language docs, which was much more familiar to me but I think if you only used Rust with ARC it would be a simple language to adopt so that's not really a fair comparison.

I think what I really need is a project rather than learning resources, with time being our greatest enemy, I need motivation to get over the hump so to speak.

(Like I said, I might not be smart enough, or I might just be profoundly lazy).

Thanks for your reply.

Is rusts most loved status simply Stockholm syndrome? I've really tried with rust, and we simply don't get on. I hear all the arguments about CVEs and wonder if rust will reduce the number of these problems simply by disabling the programmers that create them. I understand the draw, I want to love it, but i think I might not be smart enough.

Initial reaction is positive, but as with Blow's Jai, it seems like a programming language for the authors, and there's nothing particularly wrong with that; the ideological stance re FOSS, probably excludes it from any general purpose conversation, which is disappointing. Though, nothing stops interested parties from forking to support proprietary platforms, although the outcome may be disappointing 4 the authors if such a fork picked up a zig head of steam.