JasonADrury

>By that logic there is no floor: any atrocity becomes "perfectly natural" if the grievance is large enough.

This is mostly true, yeah. Do you not believe that humans act like that?

>In your broader argument you're describing a blood debt with no statute of limitations and no mechanism for resolution

Nonsense.

>Skåne (where I live) was Danish. Alsace was German. Most of Europe was Roman. At some point borders exist, people live within them, and the only available direction is forward.

Except Israel does not want Palestine to move forward.

There are approximately zero living people that give a shit about the things you mentioned, there are millions of living Palestinians who do care and suffer at the hands of Israeli state every single day.

How did you intend for this comparison to be even vaguely relevant?

>you've described a permanent state of war with no exit condition except one side's disappearance.

This is deliberately obtuse, Israel has had a plenty of ways to largely exit this conflict. At the very least they could've given all Palestinians Israeli citizenship and equal rights decades ago.

Of course, that's not really compatible with the ideals of the jewish ethnostate. I'm sure the Palestinians wouldn't seriously object though.

>You just said it's perfectly natural to want to exterminate an ethnic group. Read that back.

I'll repeat it if you want me to. We've seen it over and over again in history, it's hardly a new thing.

Considering how the jewish people choose to treat the Palestinians, it is not surprising that Palestinians want to exterminate the jewish people. It is a perfectly predictable reaction, and not some special quirk of the Palestinians.

Ah, so now Israel treats Palestinians like Spain treats Catalans?

I think we might live on different planets.

Ah, so they'd only previously been members of the IDF?

Do you suppose Israel doesn't consider previous members of Hamas legitimate targets?

>The argument you've constructed requires Hamas to have been applying a targeting framework. The evidence is that they found a large crowd of Israelis and opened fire.

But that's effectively indistinguishable from the Israeli targeting framework where everyone connected to Hamas is a legitimate target.

Yeah, they're just quotes. It's a quote.

>Can you provide some support for your moral position?

Yes, of course. A bunch of people from Europe decided to move to Palestine and start a religious ethnostate there. In doing so they expelled and murdered lots of local residents.

The surviving locals are understandably less than happy about this, and have continued to fight to defend their lands to this day.

Since then, the those people have caused far more harm to non-jewish Palestinians than non-jewish Palestinians have caused to the those people.

>allows us to sidestep the issues with Gazans’ support of Jihad, other extremist doctrines, and the extermination of Jews?

It's perfectly natural that Gazans would support the extermination of jews. In the extreme environment that Israeli jews force Palestinians to live in, it's fundamentally ridiculous to even describe it as an extremist position.

In a comfortable European context it's certainly extreme, but that's a fundamentally dishonest way of portraying it.

>I guess Israel can play the "October 7th" card at least which was an insane horror.

If October 7th is an "insane horror", what words will suffice to describe the decades of far worse crimes committed by Israel?

Considering the scale of suffering caused by this conflict, October 7th was just a small blip.

>Second, half of the Israeli Jews were ethnically cleansed from Arabic and Muslim countries.

And they should rightly blame European Jews for inciting this.

That this would happen as a response to the actions European Jews were taking in Palestine was completely predictable, but they didn't really care.

This works so much better when there are living people who care.

So why hasn't Israel just been granting all Palestinians citizenship?

It's not really about coexistence, is it? Rather than existing together, it's at best about existing separately.

>Peace for Hamas is eradicating all the Jews.

Which is a perfectly natural position considering the historic relationship here.

It's not 2fa if you assume some catastrophic exploit chain that allows an attacker to dump your macbooks secure element.

I don't think that's a reasonable assumption for most people, and you're screwed in that situation even if you use yubikeys.

Sometimes threads are flagged, sometimes they aren't. This is how HN has always worked. For the most part it depends on the users.

I think it's pretty telling how Europeans treat those people now, and how Israeli people treat Palestinians today.

Some of us learned to be better.

> First of all securing our own democracy from all the internal authoritarian movements

Is that possible? Especially given the birth rate differences between the genuine religious nutjobs and normal people?

Do you disagree that there's a good chance that by choosing to live and pay taxes in Israel you're going to have a net negative effect on the future of the Palestinians over your lifetime?

Palestinians literally need to ask you people for permission in order to leave.

You can just leave, you have a decent passport and can easily move to Europe where you don't have to worry about Iranian missiles.

> I believe in a future of peace

What does that look like to you?

I'm sure Hamas would say the same, it's just about how that peace is reached and how it looks like in the end. The typical Israeli vision of peace isn't any better than the typical Palestinian vision of peace.

Nonsense, depends entirely on the value of the authentication factor.

The Palestinian people exist and have very real and justified grievances.

There's hardly anything comparable in Europe.

>Oh Drop down from your high horse, let’s ask you what have you done for example for the environment have you quit your job to join a cause to for the environment? Have you stopped buying things from china? Have you completely stopped consuming fast fashion?

I hope this particularly weak whataboutism helps you feel better about your indefensible moral position.

> fight for the values of this country from here

Apartheid being one of the core values worth fighting for, apparently.

> I don’t have any other passport

You don't need one, it is very easy to emigrate to many western countries as an Israeli passport holder. There's also a chance you qualify for one of the EU citizenship schemes for jewish descendants. You don't have to choose to live in an apartheid state.

At least if you only held a Russian passport you could plausibly claim that it's somewhat difficult to move anywhere nice.

> I live in a home that is younger than 80 years as most Israelis do

I guess that makes it better. Truly, a shining example of Israeli moral superiority.

I can easily find ownership records going back more than 500 years for the land I live on. Odds are it'd be trivial to go even further.

What about the land you live on? Who owned it 100 years ago and how'd it end up in your possession? How do you think those records would tend to look in Israel? What kind of stories do you think they would tell? Would it be a good look for Israeli people?

I feel like you're just repeating my point here rather than criticizing my argument in any way.

Why should anyone be opposed to you living in Russia?

And if Iran gets incredibly lucky and sinks an aircraft carrier or lands a sufficiently lucky hit on a military base?

Will there still be no possibility of ground deployments?

If you're talking about Israel, why choose to move there then? Few Israelis have long-running roots in the country, it's mostly recent immigrants or their children.

This feels a lot like the people building a home next to an airport and then complaining about the noise.

Besides, are you sure "your house" wasn't stolen from someone? That's hardly uncommon in Israel.

> Large scale deployments shifted under Obama to widescale bombing campaigns

This isn't true. Small-scale targeted raids, not B52s recreating Dresden.

This isn't a footgun, you just have absurd security requirements.

>It should be pretty obvious that using a passkey, which lives in the same password manager as your main sign-in password/passkey is not two factors. Setting it up like this would be pointless.

You simply do not need two factors with passkeys. Using passkeys is not pointless, they are vastly more secure than most combined password+2fa solutions.

There are extremely few contexts where an yubikey would be meaningfully safer than the secure element in your macbook.

Much easier said than done. But hey, perhaps this will be the biggest and greatest air campaign ever.

She did marry a jew who eventually fathered me, so yeah. I would at least assume it wasn't a problem for her.

The reality is that jews elsewhere on the planet also have to pay the price for what you guys do.

What you're proposing would absolutely be insane, we're in complete agreement about that.

However, it's an absurd misrepresentation of my position, and the fact that you have to resort to it proves the futility of your position.

It's not "this person hurt me", it's "this group of people hurt me".

>I'm donating to Thomas Massie to put an end to this foreign commandeering of our government.

Surely it's more important to donate to others like Massie, no?

I literally just asked ChatGPT and it says very explicitly that Mike Huckabee will fly you to the US on his personal jet and hand you a green card if you just show him that you've been circumcised and promise to do a little proselytizing.

Except not, the Iranian revolutionary system is very much designed around the desire to be able to rapidly replace people. The list of targets for a decapitation strike might just be way too long to be feasible.