PythonicAlpha

>I think ex-Brigadier General Janis Karpinski would beg to differ

Might be, but: 1) She did not get into prison and Colonel is not so much of a demotion ... (of course I do not know, what her part was in all this exactly and how much guilt she carries herself, so the demotion might be harsh) You can might also see it not as demotion for tortures that happened, but a demotion, because it got into the open.

2) Also a Brigadier General was not the root of the problem. Just another escape goat ... a higher one, but not really high one. In my opinion, much of the administration in between and the minister of defense is at least also to blame. Also to my knowledge, no one of the agencies that where largely responsible for many acts of torture (more responsible in my opinion than many soldiers) did not get any kind of punishment.

This is a shame for the whole western world! From this moments on, we can not raise our heads or arise our voices against so called rogue-states or regimes ... because we act the same! Bending basic laws of humanity to our liking! SHAME!

Fits very much. Thank you!

This is correct. But your explanation is a little simplified. The people don't "give" power. In many cases, government takes it. The parliaments give the power to government -- but they are not the people. They are elected people and belong partly to the established system.

The problem that you describe can be better called: The people don't resist enough, that the system is taking the power and changing the rules so freedom is vanishing.

I see it in my country: Before election day it was clearly visible that the government is selling our freedom for good contacts to the US and they turned a blind eye to anything the US did. It was totally visible to all. But they where reelected even with a surplus. So most people just did not care enough. Some extra money or personal benefits where more important than democracy or freedom.

I am sure, that this notion in the western countries will retaliate heavily on us. I really fear, that now all the nightmares of Orwell and others could come true and humanity will sink into hell of its own devise.

Obama just got to much trust in advance. Everybody seemed to think, because his predecessor was such a catastrophe, Obama must be some kind of savior.

But he isn't. He even got the peace noble price just for his announcements. Nothing more. Still his announcement is there, that he will close Guantanamo. It is announced but nothing done. He is the savior of announcements.

Also people thought, that he would finish up with the bad ruling of his predecessor. But even the known cases of torture in Iraq did not have any consequences (besides those of letting some stupid low level soldiers be the escape goats). One of the first doings of Obama was a big amnesty for any wrongdoings of intelligence people. That already showed a foreshadow what we could expect of Obama.

I guess, either Obama is a Wolfe in savior-skin, or he is a sheep in a wolfs-skin and so much under pressure from some side, that he has to obey and shut up, no matter what he really wanted in the first place ...

I also guess, that we should internalize the thought, that the really mighty in this world are not on the cover pages of the newspapers and those on the cover pages are less mighty as we shall think.

I do. I also have pains sometimes, but I don't take pills every time. And when I have to take antibiotics, I go to a doctor. What is the problem with that.

Ok, in the US, the people oftentimes have no adequate healthcare, but that is an other problem in my opinion ... The US seems to be rich enough to handle it ....

It is that notion in modern people "pain must go away, fast!" that makes things worse.

Because people think that way, many will go to hospital and get said: There is nothing we can do for you (anymore).

And wait some years, than the problem will widespread.

We are indeed really lucky: Only 100 years before, there was no cure for many diseases where we just throw a pill today. But we today just take it for granted and we gamble the advantage away. They day will come and has yet come, that nature is throwing back onto us.

I don't live in the US, so I can only tell from my country, that I think is even more what pisses you off.

I don't think, that every use of medicine should be regulated, but antibiotics I see different and I am really not amused hearing, that you can get them in fish stores ...

The problem of modern medicine today is, that more and more resistances occur. The reason is: Overuse or wrong use of antibiotics. That problem is already causing many, many deaths and extraneous diseases every year. The problem will grow.

Of course, the main reason is -- as much I know -- the use of antibiotics in meat production. But even then, when everybody would have free access to antibiotics, the problem would be worsen a lot, since most people even in western world are not ready to handle them right.

>Any thought that the NSA is adding to our national security is a delusion.

Adding more security will make our life less and less secure. Anybody who believes, such things will stop terrorism, is just dreaming.

That's Ok, but you might agree, that since last year, the topic is highly political. I also don't think, that you could simply dissect discussion lines ...

Just go to Facebook ;) SCNR!

Why do you go into political discussion boards (meaning political news here), when you don't like them?

Just wondering.

Sometimes when you hear the US arguments in this matter with "foreign ears", you feel just as a second class human.

No wonder, when you don't belong to "gods own people", isn't it?

"We do not use foreign intelligence capabilities to steal the trade secrets of foreign companies"

Nobody with an unspoiled mind and following the news last year will believe this bullshit.

If there is anything, people all over the world (also in the US) should have learned: Statements from people of some federal US organisations can not be believed at all -- in many cases the complete opposite is true.

Yes, it is a shame. It is also a shame, that even younger people and even tech people have voted for Merkel.

I guess, egoistic behavior and stupidity is just very widespread.

You should definitively watch the film "The House I Live In" (One of the producers was Brad Pitt) it is an eye-opening documentation about the US drug policy. It shows, that even that is just a mock-up to fool people.

I too would have dismissed many things, that I know today as conspiracy bullshit. The point is, that we were educated (or should I say brainwashed) for centuries in a special way. But today I see, that it was a cover-up.

I too was convinced, that the west is so much better than say China or Russia ... Today I still don't like China and Russia, but things have changed ....

Possible.

But most people understand by asylum, that he comes to Germany.

I hope, you don't want to unembarrass Putin ;)

Ok, you are right. But I wanted to make a statement about Germans in particular.

The important things are not easily proven. The important people of the world cover up, what they do and what power they have. Because, if they would do it openly, people would find out, that democracy is just a mock-up.

For what, to be captured by the NSA?

There was a person with a German passport years ago, he was wrongly held in Guantanamo for a while ... against all international rights. Even after they concluded, that there is no evidence against him, they still kept him for some years.

See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murat_Kurnaz

Do you think, only because Snowden has got some German looking waste-paper, the NSA will stop hunting him down?

Dream on!

I still can't imagine, that the current German government will draw any (slightest) consequences to the US behavior. I even think, that they don't believed themselves on a no-spy deal. But it was a clever cover-up to come across the election without to many penalties. And it worked ... German voters did not recognize a thing.

But of course it might harm the US in the future. There might come the day, that people in Germany and in other countries wake up. Also the US behavior hurts them in south american companies and at least in China. The south american people are fed up with the US behavior already!

All is right, except the last paragraph.

That is just theoretical stuff. Yes, theoretical there might be something like "treason" in some old law book .... But, I don't remember one "treason" prosecution in my life time in Germany, with exception maybe to the DDR-Spy with Willi Brand as chancellor ... wow is this long ago! Also, I think there should be filed charges against many people in Germanys current government because they don't stop the US to spy on German people and companies openly. But nothing happens.

Why, because in Germany there is no independent judiciary at all. There will be no prosecution without federal prosecutor, but all of them have to obey the government -- so no member of government or top politician will ever be prosecuted in Germany, whatever evil they do against the country or the people.

Germans should start understanding, that they don't live in freedom at all. It is just a mock-up.

Of course, giving asylum to Snowden would definitively give a signal to Washington, but I would not advice Snowden to go to Germany.

With the current situation in Germany, Snowden would be dead or in a plane to Guantanamo in very little time. And I guess, even the German BND (comparable to the US NSA) would be helping. I would not trust any promises from a current German government -- by the way, how many US troops are in Germany? I guess, there is no count for US spies yet.

This was only a cover-up by the Merkel administration to win the election in last autumn. Of course, some people that where in the delegation wanted to get some little success to bring home ... but the US showed that they are the rulers and the US is the big boss.

I hope, that slowly some people in Germany wake up. The success of Merkel shows, that many still dream their econony wonder (German: "Wirtschaftswunder") dream of the 70s. But the Germans do not realize, that they have been mucked around. Germans are the country in Europe that has sold their interests most to the US, maybe with the exception of Britain.

Thanks for the friendly correction!

I am no native speaker and every friendly correction is helpful, of course!

Trouble with spelling correction: It does not understand context and thus lets you run into wrong wording ....

This seems to be the state of society we are in: If somebody uncovers a problem that exists, he is reported to the police. But if one organization spies on everybody and uses the data in irresponsible ways, they are promoted.

I have no doubt, that the coming generations will have big difficulties to distinguish between right and wrong.

We don't have the problem now with single fallen states, but with a fallen human kind.

The here key is: trust!

Something, that most big companies lack.

(many successful companies start with trusting their people, but end up with no trust at all ... and at least then the way goes downhill)

I think, it depends largely on how people work together. In some occasions, when people really work on similar problems on the same part of a project, it could really be like you described. But I have seen that in really rare cases and seldom with more than may be 3 or 4 persons. Not ten persons and also not scrum teams. In scrum teams (as I have seen them), the tasks of the persons are so different, that you seldom have that kind of communications. Also when the micro-communications, that you talked about are between two or may be three people -- there it would be better, if the three work together in one office or if they could go out of the office and meet somewhere where they don't disturb others. In such cases, I would opt for offices of 3-4 persons that work in the same areas.

I would really opt for offices of 3-4 persons. Scrum offices, or team of ten offices are to noisy for my opinion and most of the discussions will be non-interesting for the other peoples (for example developers are not interested in the managers talk or the product owner will not be interested in details from developers work .... also documentation people will not be interested in). If others could be interested or should say something about a topic, it is always better to have a spontaneous meeting.

Why do 1-3 people offices inhibit communication? I can't see it.

You can also have a central or conference room for communications, or coffee corners connecting the offices.

I think, Joel Spolsky has shown a real good example: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/BionicOffice.html

His office does give both: Everybody can retreat, but also a huge area to communicate, live and exchange in community.

Of course, nobody wants to be a corporate drone. But the "hatred" is also based on scientific evidence. Programming and other creative jobs make it necessary, that the level of distraction is low. There might be differences in different people, some like music, others could also hear radio or the like. But everybody should be able to decide himself, how much distraction is acceptable for his task or his level of concentration. Open Offices or cubicles take the decision away from people, because there is no door you can leave open or close. And the evidence is, that any extra distraction leads into decreased productivity altogether.

And of course: "Corporate drones" are less creative -- think by yourself!