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TuringTest

4,474 karma · joined September 28, 2012

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TuringTest··on Generative AI is overrated, long live old-school AI
You can use AI to validate things, i.e. to check that they conform to some specification.

You may twist the language to say that they are generating a list of validations and errors, but even then it's definitely a different use case than merely creating new items.

TuringTest··on Generative AI is overrated, long live old-school AI
I hope you've never used the power grid or parcel shipping, as those are heavily optimized using symbolic AI.
TuringTest··on Generative AI is overrated, long live old-school AI
> If that is the definition of old school AI

It is not. Symbolic, deductive reasoning engines have the same claim to being old-school AI as predictive statistic models.

TuringTest··on Dalai: Automatically install, run, and play with LLaMA on your computer
This is like giving every individual on Earth the nuclear launch codes, without the warheads being attached to launch rockets.

To do serious harm or have broad social control requires concentrating that power with an infrastructure that a small group does not have, it requires coordinating the resources of a broad social base. And at that point the incentives to use them are affected by the needs of many people.

TuringTest··on Dalai: Automatically install, run, and play with LLaMA on your computer
Fortunately, there still are some possibilities to improve training efficiency and reducing model size by doing more guided attentional learning.

This will make feasible to train models at least as good as the current batch (though probably the big players will use those same optimizations to create much better large models).

TuringTest··on Systems design explains the world (2020)
I think the core tenet would be "design every process(*) with feedback loops, so that you can detect when it needs to be updated". This can be as simple as having good tests that align with the business cases the API needs to support, to logging every data that goes through it and performing heavy data analysis on it.

(*) (Not just the processes in the program, but also processes in the company needed to find out what to do and how to do it).

This leads to organic growth, which can overcome problems caused by an upfront design that goes bad, because it couldn't have planned in advance every problem it will face in the future. Systems Design is all about adapting the system to changes in its environment. Learn about the Viable Systems Model for a mental framework on what to look for.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viable_system_model

TuringTest··on AI is making it easier to create more noise, when all I want is good search
You haven't heard about RLHF, have you?
TuringTest··on Ask HN: Has anyone started over outside of tech?
Or, to put it another way, everyone has choices, but the choices of the poor are all bad.
TuringTest··on Valent Is a KDE Connect Client for GTK-Based Desktops
But does it work on Windows?

I've only been able to connect it right after a fresh install, but after I reboot it doesn't see the phone anymore.

Is your experience better?

TuringTest··on Conversational AI will be used to Manipulate Us in real-time
That's funny, because over here in Europe private labels who use simple, unenticing packaging are aimed at price conscious consumers, while premium buyers want 'sophisticated' packaging. Maybe we are at a different part of the cycle?
TuringTest··on Conversational AI will be used to Manipulate Us in real-time
> One still has to evaluate an argument on its merits, regardless of the attractiveness of the interlocutor.

True, but unfortunately, rational thought is heavily influenced by emotions.

You are much more likely to accept some cognitive dissonances if the reasoning is caused by someone you trust, like, or admire.

Heavy thinkers are not immune to that, they just produce much more elaborate justifications.

TuringTest··on Conversational AI will be used to Manipulate Us in real-time
Also, critical thinking is a social phenomenon.

You make sense of the world based on the sources you trust, and that trust is created gregariously by learning to rely on what your peers are sharing as trustworthy. The time and effort needed is shared with the group, and the resulting wisdom of the crowds filters out the most outrageous messages from the outside, developing a 'groupthink' that establishes a consensus of what is "common sense" for the group.

However, someone with the power to broadcast messages to the whole group can overcome that group processing, and sway the whole group to a different way of thinking.

TuringTest··on The Reaction Economy
> How does it differ?

By the speed of light at which messages are transmitted.

TuringTest··on The unbearable sameness of the modern web
Yes, there's still nothing like Zombo.com

https://zombo.com/

TuringTest··on Recursive (Re-Entrant) Locks (2013)
How is spaghetti code to refactor some common aspect into a reusable method with clearly defined boundaries?
TuringTest··on I love building a startup in Rust but wouldn't pick it again
Rust is a systems language, not a business language.

If you're building an operating system or a software platform, to for it; the robustness will pay for itself in time to fix hard-to-find errors.

But if you're iterating fast to find out what the program should be about to begin with, use a prototype-friendly language instead. With garbage collection.

TuringTest··on The program is the database is the interface
> ...You've been listening to Alan Kay?

Actually yes :-) I agree that the original vision of computing pioneers about "augmenting the human intellect" has yet to become reality, and the industry has been entrenched in a local minimum derived from the very early engineering practices. But all that is finally changing really fast.

TuringTest··on The program is the database is the interface
Because it's a valid metaphor :-)

Computation started at the Jacquard loom, so engineers have a tradition of seeing it as a machine crunching patterns.

But computers science, just like math, is a language so its deeply grounded in semantics. And semantics grow and evolve from the actions of each individual speaker, without a central processing unit controlling the process, so "organic" is a good way to describe it.

TuringTest··on The program is the database is the interface
> I'd love to see a sort of hypercube model that also had the ability to perform better database-style summarizing. Pivot tables with more dimensions and power, perhaps.

I'd say the recent data analysis tools based on notebooks and data lakes satisfy those requirements. A library like Pandas provides the cube programming model of data dimensions, a column-oriented database like Hadoop gives you efficient storage, and a Jupyter notebook is the user-friendly GUI.

It's certainly more complex than a spreadsheet, but the code parts may be encapsulated to not scare your users.

TuringTest··on The program is the database is the interface
I'd say the closest thing in modern systems would be the Stream metaphor (a.k.a. Observer design pattern) in functional reactive programming.

This is the construct used to program the spreadsheet's reactive behavior, after all. You could think of users creating spreadsheet formulas as declaring a pipeline at runtime between two datasets, the origin range and the target range.

What is missing is a way to create "spreadsheet functions" among different applications. Online computational notebooks a la Jupyter are almost there, but they still need to share the same runtime kernel to transfer data between different books.

A combination of notebooks and web hooks should do the trick, methinks, but it needs someone to assemble this brittle system into a robust product.

TuringTest··on The program is the database is the interface
It does matter, but then it doesn't, if it makes your life as a programmer more difficult, which is the situation described here.

SQL lives on because it makes database storage extremely efficient, not because developers enjoy switching context to an entirely different programming language and runtime environment. That they have to use it doesn't mean they have to like using it.

TuringTest··on The program is the database is the interface
MS Excel has largely replicated the Improv model as an optional mode within formulas, allowing you to create Ranges as names for groups of cells and allowing you to use the names as variables in formulas instead of coordinates.

However, it lacks the flexibility of a true dataflow model. They incorporated the full model into the Power Pivot plugin, and later migrated it to a standalone app as Power BI. It's a reasonably complete paradigm, but much less well-known than the spreadsheet.

https://spreadsheeto.com/power-pivot-vs-bi/

TuringTest··on The program is the database is the interface
> I hope one day someone will figure out how to merge reactive notebooks (Observable-style, not Jupyter-style) and spreadsheet

I'm working on that exactly - I have several conceptual designs for presentation and interaction, that's where my wit concept comes from as an abstraction to represent cells in the reactive graph, which can be seen either as an array or as a single cell with a label and a prototypic value. Once you liberate the concept from the 2D grid, dependencies between variables create lots of interesting navigation and presentation problems and expanded possibilities.

Unfortunately I don't have much time for side projects and my programming skills are a bit rusty, so I haven't advanced much in terms of actual implementation. Moreover, my 'universal' requirement of having it available as a system-wide background service would take a lot of work :-(

TuringTest··on The program is the database is the interface
> Isn't this .. the spreadsheet?

You nailed it, it's a spreadsheet - but one that doesn't constraint all data to live on the same application window, but could access and transform it throughout the whole system - just like copy/paste can transfer data from one program to another, where it can be transformed with a different toolset.

Copy/paste is the most fundamental tool in the toolbox of the end user, since it's the only universal* way to transfer data between apps without accessing an API programmatically, so I think it's undeservedly neglected as a tool to build real life practical workflows.

Incidentally, spreadsheets are one of the most versatile and successful End-User Development tools, allowing users to build information systems tailored to their business purposes. A system combining those design capabilities with the flexibility of building system-wide workflows could transcend the current model of siloed apps.

* Intents on mobile devices are similar, but they are not universal - many times the app to which you want to transfer data is not recognized as a valid target for the shared data.

TuringTest··on The program is the database is the interface
I should point out that I'm not entirely serious about the concept of wit really being any measurable amount of meaning, I just wanted a catchy name that sounds cool :-)

The true minimum meaningful computation is probably the lambda function, anyway.

TuringTest··on The program is the database is the interface
> turning SQL into a full scripting language

That's what PL/SQL and T-SQL basically are. They work, but they have a somewhat weird programming model, halfway between programming and declarative sql but being neither, with table cursors and stateful SQL queries.

And of course, their scope is limited to interacting with the database itself, not the outer world.

TuringTest··on The program is the database is the interface
Thanks, I'll take a look. A wit would be the smallest unit of meaning in computing, then. I.e. the smallest part that needs processing beyond that of a primitive.
TuringTest··on The program is the database is the interface
Since its inception, computers were based on the model of a machine traversed by data that are processed like sausages in a mincer, as data was fed directly on hardware which had code assembled as physical wires.

However, the software part of the machines is made of the same material as the data, so they are much closer to what current programming languages seem to imply.

It is natural that they tend to converge, especially in Lisp-like languages, into a type of program where the structure has code and data intermingled, which organically co-evolve in the directions in which problem solving takes it.

Instead of a machine with a processing pipeline, a closer metaphor might be the phloem of plants, the living cells that transport food, and which form part of the plant's structure and grow along with it.

(BTW I've coined a name for that kind of self-rendered cells, processed in place as collections of data sharing the same structure; I call them 'wits' - as in, the minimum unit of meaning; in parallel to bits as the minimum unit of information. And if you look closely, you'll begin to see that a lot of modern programming systems have them everywhere. So you may want to use this term 'a wit' to describe the concept explained in the article.)

TuringTest··on The program is the database is the interface
Experimental programming languages based on completely novel concepts are difficult to program, and even more difficult to disseminate and monetize.
TuringTest··on The program is the database is the interface
> why do so many developers think that SQL is hard/clunky in comparison?

> A database introduces a different data model - I have to translate between database data-types and my programming languages native data-types.

The key concept is explained in this sentence in the article. It doesn't matter how difficult or simple it is; the problem is that it's a different model, so it creates translation inefficiencies and makes it more difficult to reason about.

The object-relational impedance mismatch is a known problem; having data in one place and format, accessed through a single programming model will typically be easier than a separate service with a different language and model, no matter how efficient.

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