avinoth

From my experience, x arr is not a reliable metric for products of this size. They don't exactly have risk covered returns due to their size and they're usually bought for their growth prospect than any meaningful return it can give.

I didn't have any particular expectation per se, any x arr with the potential baked in is fine. But the most conversations I've had are bog-standard x months of profit and people looking to acquire it as an asset, which makes sense for them, but doesn't for me as I mentioned before the risk is pretty low in keeping it myself.

I've thought about it in the past, but the risk/reward ratio is better if I just run it myself.

Also, the whole selling process was a huge turnoff for me as the offers were at most 3x arr and lots of tirekickers when I posted on acquire.

I did fell into that pitfall when I built keenly. Just wanted to build something new.

But then, only when I received good feedback I thought to proceed with it.

I won't deny, the new thing is definitely appealing because it's new. But you make a good point about finding myself in the same place again.

I've had some good options presented here and I'm leaning towards focusing on rosterbird and try to get a growth engine going and then, maybe, once it's sustainable, I can try new things if I still wanted to.

That’s the thing though, it’s a Google engineer’s market salary, and likely the author’s as well. But the OP was drawing the conclusion that whoever’s running the business has to be paid the same amount, that’s what I wanted to address.

> I would agree that most people would take some job flexibility/autonomy in lieu of part of their bigco salary

This is one of the point the author has repeatedly stressed the importance of and I very much agree as well. The chance to chart your own journey and the excitement a business could bring is anyday more valuable than the predictable path of employment for many (including myself)

Valuing a profit-generating business that's making $1m in revenue as zero is reductive.

Valuation of business isn't necessarily determined by profits (perhaps for commodity businesses), It's just one of the metric. This is a business that has strong operations, product, assets, and IP, honestly quite surprised with this take.

Also, a nit fwiw, you automatically assumed the entire profit of the business is the market salary for the person running this business

Agree. There’s definitely use to get a general pulse of whats happening. This isnt directed towards storytell or such apps, sorry if that came off that way.

I was addressing the parent’s comment about being overwhelmed about not being able to go through the opinions. I’ve felt similar way before I realised they were just fomo. If anything, apps like storytell are actually better way to consume these things :)

Thanks for this! I’m very surprised about the overwhelming support for Altman in this thread going as far as calling the board incompetent and inexperienced to fire someone like him, who now is suddenly the right steward for AI.

This is not at all the take, and rightly so, when the news broke out about non profit or the congressional hearing or his worldcoin and many such instances. All of a sudden he is the messiah that was wronged narrative being pushed is very confusing.

Don’t be. Almost all of it are speculations at this point and no one from inside is going to reveal the secret in a random HN comment.

And also, think about this, unless you’re a shareholder with openai, knowing the “opinion” of others isn’t going to impact your life in any form. I’m not saying you shouldn’t read it or participate in the discourse, but there’s no need to be overwhelmed by opinions let alone build a chat bot to get through it.

Sure. Broadly this is the list. Many of these are my go-to's for all my products. Only the Project management, I had to keep trying new things. Most favorite for now is Trello.

Also, I use dokku for deployment, so it's very similar to heroku and uses heroku buildpacks.

Hetzner - Servers.

Helpscout - Customer helpdesk

Google - workspace Email

Github - Source code

Airbrake - Error monitoring

Posthog - Analytics

Shortcut - Project management

Canny - Feedback & Changelog announcement

Stoplight - API documentation

Slack - For app testing

UptimeRobot - Uptime monitoring

MRR - For subscription tracking

Mailgun - Transactional Emails

Reform - One time used for feedback collection

Calendly - Call bookings

Paddle - Payment platform

I wouldn't say this one to be frugal, but then frugality varies by different parameters. What they priortize (Eg: a dedicated marketing tool vs sending marketing through app itself), what their expertise in (hosting in vps vs aws vs heroku, etc), the type of service, team size and so on. As there are 10 ways to do the same thing all with a different tradeoffs.

Being solo myself, I aim to keep my costs as low as possible as well. Until my last product, all my previous products I kept the running costs to $3 per month (just for the server on hetzner). Rest all were free services (tawk.to for CS, Zoho for email, postmark for emails, and so on). Granted they weren't making much, just couple of hundred dollars per month, but then it was pure profit and it got fun to measure the returns in profit than just revenue.

For the latest one, all in all I spend around $30 per month with close to $1250 in mrr. So it has generous spend to return ratio. The only three running cost are the helpscout (for customer support, docs, etc.), google workspace and the servers with Hetzner. HelpScout and Google workspace were my way of "splurging" the costs.

Last I checked I was using close to 16 services (ranging from marketing to revenue tracking), so weren't really skimping on tools to save costs either.

The free tools (including several the op mentioned) are awesome to get started, but many of these services' costs would jump multi-fold even if you add one other team member or go just above the limit. That's anyway all these services' business model as well.

I used to do programming projects on the side for almost 10 years now. Programming has been my hobby, passion or time-pass whatever you could call it.

At the beginning, these projects was my vent from the day job to learn new tools/tricks, try out random stuff, nothing specific. And I mostly don't finish it, I just move on, because I didn't have to complete those. Some were open source, many weren't.

And then one of my project that I spent hardly few hours on got some 1000+ upvotes on ProductHunt. So many emails, new follows, it was exhilarating. It pegged me into submitting my next project to PH as well. Though it didn't get as much recognition, it was covered by few tech journals, then some more followed. Suddenly I had users who were using something that I've created and I started charging for it. When it started making money, albeit little (i think at the most it was $100/mo), it changed things.

A thought arose, "I like building sideprojects, what if I get to do this full time!". It was exciting!

After that, I could never go back to working on my projects for just "fun". It always had to have some business reason. Can it work? Is the idea worthwhile? What is the revenue potential and so on. Suddenly, I'm not just programming, but doing customer support, marketing, trying to promote the project, etc.

Eventually, I wasn't doing the thing that I enjoyed and by pursuing it for commercial motives, it had become something else entirely.

I think many of us fall into this pit either by chance or being egged from outside. In my case, what I enjoyed was just programming. I conflated it with building a business. Unless you are famous or successful, almost anything that are pursued by passion alone, had to morph into something if you want it to support your life.

I just went full-time a month ago to try and build some profitable products. And I'm trying to get that "fun" part into the full-time thingy again. Can I truly work on things I enjoy, try new stuff and still make money out of it? Only time will tell. If the results don't come, so be it.

As others here pointed out, Meta does not have a good history of launching completely new products separately and succeeding in it (except FB ofc). So it’s a wait and see.

If they’re going to ride on the coattails of the existing influencers, might make more sense to keep it a feature than a brand new app. The existing influencers would have no extra incentive to spend efforts on a whole new app if they’re addressing the same audience and won’t be gaining new set of audience.

Or keep it completely new to excite new wannabe influencers and they will put in the extra effort and drive activity at the beginning.

The "detail"I received is the same generic reply you've shared in the other thread.

I don't know what fly's internal processes are, but I suspect the reviewer had to have submitted some bit of internal feedback on each submissions on why they're okaying it or not. A filtered version of it or even a separate candidate specific feedback would be just enough.

I've been at the hiring side of the table for many years and every time we share a handcrafted feedback to interviewees that we have passed on, we always heard back good things. They know we respected their time (and them), even if they don't agree with the particular feedback.

This feedback is not meant for them to get "better" or something. My point is, it could even be 2 hours the candidate spends, the least they deserve is knowing that it was actually looked at.

Mirrors my experience.

The job listing promised mountains and that it will take few hours and they’ll take time in their feedback,etc.

except i just got a generic reply that “we’re not satisfied with the solution”. For something that took ~10 hours, i was at the least expecting a vague pointers on whys. I even sent an one pager explaining style decisions, caveats, etc. It was pretty insulting.

And when asked for a follow up, got a more generic bs about how the evaluation criteria is honed from their years of experience and that is not something they share outside.

One good thing that is it made me realise interviewing still sucks and i just stopped looking for jobs.

Same for zurich and geneva as well. It’s almost a meme here for finding rental apartments within nominal budgets.

They’re nice to live “if” you could afford to.

I'm doing a speedrun of sorts trying to build a product every 2 weeks. This is mostly to satisfy the builder in me and to exercise the product shipping muscles.

For a long time, with full time jobs and consulting gigs I was never able to do what I loved the most, just programming. It was always superseded with other "business" stuff that it is has been ages when I could just put my heads down and work on something. So, this is an excuse to not focus on the nitty-gritty of business related things and just build and ship products.

Also, I had a growing list of ideas and a fomo along with it. So, i wanted to give a shot in attempting a fair number of them in short time.

With just a backpack, it is already nightmare through security. I can't imagine walking back and forth fishing out that one last thing over and over from all the nooks and crannies.

I could relate at multiple levels.

I suffered from series of burnout, bordering depression, for the longest of time without even realizing I'm going through one. When I lost the will to work, I attributed it to the work isn't interesting and took on more side projects to "keep it interesting". When that didn't work, I thought I just lost it and this is how long it's supposed to last.

I did every commonly suggested things, exercised very regularly, kept myself fit, quit smoking (2 years now), didn't drink, solo travel, etc., but nothing really resolved it completely. (thinking back now, maybe it's those things that kept everything at bay)

For me what finally moved the needle noticeably was when I started introspecting consistently (i do with everyday notes). I strived to have clear reasonings for why i do what i do, taking a third person view on certain emotions and diagonsing/troubleshooting it as you would a bug. This had led me to make several changes in my life/career sever of which i don't think i would've done otherwise.

I don't believe there is one solution fits all nor one solution for everything. I arrived at this after attempting all of these above and even I can't say for sure if it is THE ONE thing that solved, most likely it's a combination of everything else as well.

Unfortunately what works for you can only be figured out by you and only by doing it can you tell if it's the one. Keep iterating.

Apples to oranges imo. We’re talking about a journal (with photos and audio and whatnot) here.

Also, i think keeping it in a physical format is more vulnerable from others accidentally reading it than in a phone which is the most private to me as an individual.

Excited for the journal app! I was always uncomfortable trusting any of the existing apps and inevitably censor or give up writing my thoughts.

I’ve even tried building several (4(!)) journaling apps in the past and it’s still an unsolved problem for me. Right now i use a mix of obsidian and a self built journal app but that obviously has some drawbacks on its own.

Microjournaling, photo context and able to share (along with local e2e) are on top of my list. Looks like it solves many of it.

While I like players such as Proton entering the Password manager space, I hope they don't lose focus with the multitudes of products.

What I liked about Proton was the simplicity on just one product and executing it well, but lately they've kept on adding new products some in their wheelhouse and aligns well (VPN for example), but some a stretch (Drive/Calendar).

Obligatory xkcd - https://xkcd.com/2501

One more I'll add is to show/say some response, anything.

One group of people I've found difficult to interact with is those who won't show any emotion or acknowledgement. It could just be a visual cue, a nod or a smile.

I've noticed when the other party doesn't provide any visual cues, we tend to talk more either into hard pressed convincing or make some assumptions to go in depth into it until we get a response.

I've noticed that I talk usually more than necessary to someone who is quiet. I've tried being on the other side and have noticed the same behavior from the counter-party. I guess we are hard wired to get some or any response for our contributions.

I don't mind. It's mostly via Slack app directory, sometimes I get through my links. I specifically wanted to build an idea in a marketplace to solve the discovery problem (as I suck at outbound marketing or any marketing in general).

If you're looking to build in any marketplace, shopify is more strealimed as majority of the shopify's users spends on the apps (and the billing and stuff is integrated) compared to any other marketplace.

I've just changed into the per-user pricing (From fixed rate) to give better flexibility for organizations of all sizes. Would look into the pricing again in 6 months based on how it performs for now.

Io be honest, i'm not much of an expert on this either. I've built several projects and have abandoned midway.

I put down all of my ideas with a title and 2 lines of description on evernote whenever it strikes (mostly when seeing a problem, there could be other solutions that exists for this problem at this point).

And whenever in an unrelated instance I encounter a variation of the problem again, which if I believe could've been solved by that idea that I had, I give it a serious thought into researching for solutions and if none exists, I get to build.

I wouldn't call this an ideal process, it just works for me. The bad side-effect I have come to realise from this process is, I build products for which there doesn't exist a solution, which means either the market isn't there or isn't big enough.

The previous project was the same situation (fileql.com, ended up selling it) and now RosterBird. They stay small for relatively long time as you also have to convince users that they have a problem in the first place.

Thank you for the feedback, it is excellent. This homepage was done by me last month and you are correct. It speaks more of the offerings than exactly what it does or how it works. I'll get on it today.

As to what it does, It's basically a Rostering app for Slack teams to automate turn rotation and assign for who has to perform tasks when.

Users can setup their roster by selecting the interval (Daily, weekly, biweekly, monthly), notification time and select the squad members. RosterBird will automatically assign members per the configuration (factor in off days, absences, etc) and notify the assignee on their turn.

I'm working on additional features that allows the team members to book their convenient slots themselves instead of auto-assigning, that should give a different angle to the app and increase the potential usage, hopefully.

Running https://rosterbird.com on the side for 2 years now. It's oscillating between $800-$900 mrr for the past 3 months.

I originally wanted it to be a passive income project but it has grown in scope before I even realized.

Building and maintaining a B2B SaaS on the side is pretty draining. There's always more features, support requests, etc. Wouldn't recommend unless it takes off immediately or it is within a nice niche or you're planning to take it full time.

I've thought about either selling it (and start any other project) or properly growing it (launch in MS teams, shift capabilites, etc) for many months now.

Would appreciate if anyone has any thoughts.

Very much This. With the first-mover advantage, lack of VC interest in the Indian Fi space, the compliance load for any upstarts has led Zerodha to enjoy a competitive free landscape of the "Commission free mutual funds" and "Low cost stock trading".

That is changing rapidly with the huge inflow of VC money into the financial sector in the last 5 years with countless startups fueled by VC money and incumbents upping their offering had begun to capture / steel away their market.

They would be pressured into growing to compete with them sooner if not already.

I'm on the same boat, burnt by Evernote and trying to find the good alternative. Sticking with Obsidian for now with some apple notes in-between. But the former has too many features I don't need and later has this vendor lock-in.

If I ever built a note taking app, I'll be using your tag line as a subtitle and a guiding principle :)

"...just a list of notes with some formatting and sync capabilities"