HNHacker News
TopNewBestAskShowJobs

cmui

690 karma · joined March 14, 2022

chris at electricair.io
submissionscomments
cmui··on Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners
Thanks for the support! Vapor injection is cool - if that's interesting look at some other novel architectures like cascade cycles, hot gas bypass, and internal heat exchangers.
cmui··on Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners
Other replies have great points. A few of my own (1) Proper install is really important, we're building a software tool to make sizing heat pumps and qualifying ducts easier (2) Having a dedicated smart thermostat means that back up heat strip operation is much better than the normal control logic (3) A well installed heat pump system provides a better thermal environment than a furnace because it precisely matches the load of your home instead of cycling on and off. This lets the surfaces in your home soak to a more uniform radiant temp, and radiative exchange is ~50% of your perceived thermal environment at room temperatures.
cmui··on Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners
I get where you're coming from. There's a lot of scope to this though, and not a lot of technical risk. I think in this case it makes sense to sell units, and also generate feedback about the product as early as possible. We're not selling fusion or self driving cars.
cmui··on Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners
We're primarily targeting remodel/retrofits as a market, but you could certainly use this in a new build.
cmui··on Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners
My hats off to you for doing a DIY install. This is not a bad route to go if you enjoy/feel comfortable doing the work and don't care about air quality, smart thermostat integration, etc. Re contractors, we will have local contractor partners do the install and handle servicing, so you won't be left with an unserviceable system.
cmui··on Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners
There are some combined space heating + water heating heat pump options out there. A few points to watch out for (1) install of an extra hydronic loop for the air handler can be expensive (2) your air handler + heatpump combination will not run as efficiently because of the losses associated with a secondary loop (3) there's a bit of a trick to getting the heat pump properly sized for cold weather + domestic hot water operation (4) if the demand temperatures for domestic hot water and space heating are far apart, the whole system will run at the lowest efficiency dictated by the highest demand temperature.
cmui··on Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners
Thanks for the feedback! I'll send you a note.
cmui··on Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners
This behavior is how current variable speed heat pumps operate with Ecobee and Nest. You leave efficiency on the table, but I get it provides some future proofing assurance for homeowners. Definitely something we can integrate into the board.
cmui··on Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners
It's something we'd definitely consider. Is the desire to have thermostat control via any third party?

edit - The current plan has been Matter/thread Homekit + Google Home integration. We can expose at least temperature control via this to everyone.

cmui··on Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners
A few major improvements - (1) Purchasing experience, we'll connect you with a local contractor, arrange financing and help with rebates. (2) HEPA filtration, fresh air intake and humidity control fully integrated into the system, actuated off PM2.5 and CO2 sensors in the thermostat. (3) A smart thermostat that is optimized for operation with a variable speed heat pump, and reduces your monthly bills. (4) Help for the contractors in the form of a web app to do load disaggregation for heat pump sizing and figure out if the existing ducts can be used for the install. This is something a lot of contractors need an effective tool for.
cmui··on Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners
Fair point, I should do a better job of communicating the unit sizes. Heat pump capacity varies as a function of outdoor temps. A standard unit is rated at 47F but the sizes I'm showing are at 5F (cold climate conditions). Also for this price you get the air quality module which does HEPA, fresh air intake and humidification and a smart thermostat that's designed to fully optimize this heat pump system.
cmui··on Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners
I understand the concern around lock in. There is a technical hurdle to optimized thermostat <--> variable speed heat pump interop. You have to turn the temperature error between setpoint and actual temperature into a compressor speed command and also factor in behavior such as defrost, compressor cycling limits, etc. So you have to have a communicating thermostat to fully utilize the efficiency of these variable speed heat pump systems, not just a collection of analog on/off wires.
cmui··on Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners
I totally get this concern. Any good piece of critical home infrastructure should be able to operate without the cloud or an internet connection. Following this logic the thermostat + heat pump combination can operate fine without the cloud. You leave some optimized behavior on the table like demand response and weather response, but everything else will work (you'd have to manually enter your TOU rate plan to get that energy optimization).
cmui··on Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners
What I've observed is that getting a heat pump turns into a real science fair project for homeowners, and forget trying to integrate air quality in a good way. The proprietary communicating thermostats that come with heat pumps are really bad, and you can force an Ecobee or Nest to work with the heat pumps, but it hurts system efficiency by turning your variable speed equipment into less efficient fixed stage equipment. Lots of integration problems to be solved!
cmui··on Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners
We will have standard home integrations (Google Home, Apple Homekit, likely implemented via Matter standard). Using those you can set temperature easily, however to have deeper insight into system state, energy use, air quality, you'd have to use the app. We could also set up the thermostat so it can be used standalone - no app integration.
cmui··on Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners
That's a great point. Our initial market will be North America where this makes the most sense. For people with radiators, you could also do an install with our wall unit. If you have a radiator + boiler system there are also a lot of air-to-water heat pump options for you today. It's an area worth exploring for future Electric Air products.
← PreviousPage 4 of 4