dejan

[edit] artists & writers used parody and satire to make the society a better place. I find it inadequate, mentioning the same in the context of advertising.

And..it's not, if you are a part of the labeling, or a victim of that hack.

ok, I will respectfully disagree with most of you here, as there is nothing "comical" about it.

This made me officially sick, although so far had high opinion of them. I didn't get the joke of "french" font, and "hard working americans." I feel...insulted, as this is a way how to promote stupidity and national hatred. The guy wrote a book, and just because it is one position higher, he is a subject of an attack like this. Did they even read his book? No, it was easier to search the internet of a guy who didn't like it and quote it.

Maybe tomorrow it is >you< there, with your book, or your product. Or me?

Wasn't the content that mattered? I've seen excerpts from Rework and feel this is a toilet book. Inarticulate and arrogant, I know it all style, but I don't go making a video comparing their book with e.g. Re-Imagine by Tom Peters.

Tom has an attitude, but not an insulting one, but of a creative energy, an innovative arrogance that he wishes to spread.

Again, it could be just me. I would never smack Americans with "All European/Asian/African" labels. Nationality, religion and all other kinds of divide are elements of mediocrity. Real hackers should know that.

what's the relation of rework and innovation? Can you quote some stuff? I am considering this book, but to me it doesn't seem like it has anything innovation, especially since 37signals didn't really do anything innovative. Can't count open source framework there, as by itself it's just a framework.

I believe he is talking about large scale, generalized p2p and finally merging the web app benefits with supercomputer's power of our desktops, coordinating power across the net, and having information "fly around" in cyberspace.

sexy.

You didn't name but tag that file: - "2008" - all files from/related to year 2008 - "tax" - all documents related to tax - "return" - all documents related to "return"

Now, your file should be in the intersection of those tag- sets.

I quoted about the nipple, it's a well know quote, but the insight in nipples is always worth recording, kids are coming. :D

Maybe the person just doesn't understand that data doesn't need "human" organizing in first place. It's us, the users, who make a mess out of it.

Files and directories were fit when we had 1 GB drives. Now, with a 1 TB standard coming for laptops, sorting data is just as complex as SETI. It's not the problem in the programs as much as in the inherited cruft knowledge of rapid acceptance of personal computers. An intuitive solution doesn't have to be explained, while I spent so much time explaining folders/files although it should have been obvious.

Indeed, "the only "intuitive" interface is the nipple. After that it's all learned." Now, I am not saying filesystems == nipples, but it's one hell of a goal to aim to for such a foundation in information management.

Although I wrote (long time ago) about sets/tags as a possible solution [http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=709814], I think it's just the tip of the iceberg. Lifestreams make more sense to me with each thought, as I can see how I would use it.

Thinking aloud - naming files doesn't make sense as 1) information can have multiple names dependent on the perspective, 2) information is divisible, so naming should be too.

The most interesting part imho is the lifestream he talks about, as well the implied "eternity service" for information management. I wonder besides Linda, why more of these ideas didn't see implementation. I am assuming the Internet and the open source collaboration came too late.

Linda for sure will see reincarnation, but can't stop thinking how funny it is that old technologies are coming back in big fashion, as "innovations". PG might be right, all languages seem to be evolving into Lisp. :D

Good advice, will change that. Thanks again for the advice!

All competitors do as you say - take the credit card info and store it. Only if price reaches the threshold, then they are charged. I believe a different approach should be tested against, as the resistance to making a commitment is lower.

The assumption is that if the price gets discounted at all, that becomes the best offer online.

that is true; I guess my assumption is that everyone know what it is. I am thinking about explaining it visually, instead all those wordings. Thanks again!

good points; I am thinking on how to simplify and better present this concept. Thanks for the comment!

I gave it a bit of a thought. Maybe this can be done post-reservations. The solver would consider how popular the item was, the prices at which people accepted to participate and the lowest achieved price. According to all of this, the solver would calculate the suggested item price.

That's cool, I might do that, just for fun.

I wouldn't limit the usage to only manufacturing and operations management. I am trying to keep it as a universal tool.

Thanks again for valuable thoughts.

exactly, that is the one I had in my head ;) but still made a correction bellow...

To make a reservation (a pledge) of future purchase, the potential buyers are charged small fee. This makes the reservations a bit more reliable, as no one throws money just like that.

The seller doesn't consider these as actual purchases yet. It is only a demand aggregation, meaning grouping people that care strongly about the price. After the deadline or max quantity, the item closes. At this point the seller gives real payment instructions, but at a different price. Of course there is the risk that not all will complete the purchases but isn't that already included in the price? The seller can count lets say a 50% completion rate already when making the prices?

What you described is awesome and a real hacker's view. I think it is very cool and have to admit I have been thinking similar in this direction at the beginning. But.. I have an obvious problem getting this solution explained to a hacker community (see my comments here). I wonder how I would explain the solver to consumers and sellers. :D I need a solver for a headache later.

Thank you for awesome reasoning and comment! For sure will think about it deeper now.

The email is absolutely needed as this is the contact point between the seller and the buyer. I didn't go into modifying the demo component but used actual. As I see, most people use random mail addresses to test it out, so can you. It is just an address to which confirmation is delivered with the discount codes.

That is good, I think you're right and will consider doing that. Thanks for the comment!

If people are already doing it, that is no reason not to try something different =) Currently, major group buying happens on GroupOn and Buywithme, as well on their European copycats. However, they are pretty much limited to services, as the prices are easiest to rip-off a percentage cut. BuyWithMe e.g. takes 20-50% of the price for them. That doesn't seem right to me?

Sure, the biggest challenge is in convincing merchants to actually use it. However, I think I will start with own goods first (3 retailing companies here).

I will see to change that to be a more sales feature instead of technical.

Thanks for the great advices!

I wonder if anyone really does have js switched off today. It is the era of the rich web experiences. And if he does, he for sure isn't interested in this. I could tweak it so that button has a href when no script, but I wonder about that. Today almost any web app relies heavily on js.

I tried GetSatisfaction without JS. Crash and burn too.

However, I'll think about it. Thanks for the comment and advice. I wasn't thinking of going into any arguments, I respect the differing opinions ;)

Although similar in technique maybe (SyncFu uses an iframe), they are very different in what they do.

This is a starting point for the destillation. Thanks for the advice, I am thinking about it.

[updated]

Isn't it obvious that price drops with quantity?

A reservation is a pledge that the customer will purchase the item later. The reservation costs $1-3 depending on where the buyer is, and is paid through a cell phone. By having it be paid, it is simply more reliable. No one wastes money, and these are dissolving costs in the total discount.

I believe this is the minimal information. The unit price, the current and the maximum quantity price. What do you think is excess?

Thanks for the comment.

#dosyncfu is the autotrigger hash, when added it will start the group buying box immediately upon DOM load.

Thanks for the comment. I hear you, but what is confusing about this UI? If 4 sentences are "too much text", then hell, how people understand others in the same field that induce more complex processes: http://www.groupon.com

Big f*ing button is there, in size and color.

IMHO, this web app doesn't need to be explained a whole lot. Those that hear "Group Buying" and understand what it is from those two words, they'll know how & what & where. After all, this web address is meant for sellers, not buyers.

You are right with your correction. I just read again what I wrote - it's quite harsh I see. Should have been in bed long time ago :D

My intention was: The mindset of poor and average people is commonly very affected by this, with least barriers, falling into a rat race, as a cause and a consequence.

lol. Thanks, it's nice to have a laugh this late :) (Sorry, I'm not being sarcastic, just it's a common misunderstanding)

Well, it says it's a webapp, not a rock band's fan page. People are actually ment to login, do their stuff and leave. I wish I could dump that login too, but it is the collateral damage of shifting apps to the web.

All the text is there to help the technical people searching for answers, but the actions are clearly shown. I doubt one can't find her way around.

I wonder when will "webapps" truly be understood as different than websites. I am comparing webapps to desktop apps, not to brochures. Am I alone here?

you've laid it out nicely, this is the mindset of the poor and average people. I always remember the photo of Jobs's living room in the 80s. When there isn't too much crap around, you can actually focus on what matters.

Great comment, highly appreciated!

"because traditionally, individuals shop individually, rather than with a group"

Exactly, but if there was a possibility in general to buy in bulk with random people at the same moment, it wouldn't be traditional? I agree with your view, but one just has to disagree with the traditional in order to see what is possible today with all this social bits flying around.

As I've mentioned group buying exists in GroupOn for example, but it is insanely how much the sellers lose. With such a component they could provide the same services. Yet, there is no "target" quantity where the discount becomes available, as it happens immediately with each reservation. The quantities are set by the seller, and for sure are not infinite. The seller really has all the power over the group purchasing.

Once the item is closed with either its deadline or maximum quantity, the seller can provide with payments instructions and a deadline for actual payment. I doubt all will complete the payment, but most of them will. The seller of course counts on this when setting the price, so the risk is the least.

I've been digging a long time, but I haven't seen the concept with "reservations" as SyncFu. Do you know any? All of them I know would take your CC info first, and charge once target is met. (That is one way how SyncFu reduces friction in comparison)

The whole point with SyncFu is about laying down some grease in online payments. There is a lot of space for innovation in online payments as well usage of micropayments as sales catalysts, not actual charges.

it's late here too :) well, the webApp solves a problem of aggregating price-aware customers that would accept buying the item later but at a lower price.

It isn't for everything, but selected products/services. It is similar in concept as GroupOn & BuyWithMe, except it is more a bare-bone feature that is easy to setup and customize.

It may also be used for promotions, let's say in digital goods, since the target price can be set down to zero.

In the demo given, price per unit is $2000. The $2 are reservation fee paid through a cell phone / cc as a micropayment.

'Buying' doesn't actually happen, only reservations are made to 'participate' in the group purchase. After the deadline expires (the countdown timer), the item closes and all that reserved get a notification that it closed. Now the seller contacts all those (the admin side supports it), and tells them that they have 72h to purchase the item in the existing shopping cart with the discount code provided. That is of course if there is a shopping cart, otherwise an invoice or payment request can be sent, but that is however completely a matter of the seller.

There is no mediation, only a reservation making tool that is easy to setup, use and configure. Thanks for the comment, I see how that can be a bit confusing.

Good point, but why isn't it already if so? E.g, Shopify? Shopify actually lacks even per-item discount codes.

Group buying isn't a proven feature for websites, nor is it cross-site interaction universal. Visitors have to know what it is and trust it in a form of knowing what to expect and what not. That is the space SyncFu should occupy.

Basically, SyncFu is just a free* version of Groupon, Buywithme etc. The main reason for developing it is bringing this feature to any website without the 20-50% fees that these sites snatch. The only cost is the reservation fee, and it is charged to the customer, which is a dissolving cost.

You are certainly right about big vendors, if you throw a bunch of resources, it is too easy - but most little/medium web-shops deploy custom, features-less shopping carts - e.g. all the customers of Groupon and BuyWithMe.

Plus, I have no clue how would any company justify any costs of developing such a concept / experimental "feature". Well, for sure it isn't happening since there is very little innovation in online payments. Therefore this simple thing is isolated for any company to deploy on chosen products/services in a very simple manner.

Besides, this little component offers more than just group purchasing. Promotions are easily made, e.g:

- free signup for the first 100 reservations (price goes down to 0)

- pre-orderings of future books, directly by the author

This is of course my personal opinion, but SyncFu was built to verify the hypothesis :)

Thanks for the comment, and regarding the too easy, well, it took a long time to ditch features and shape minimal single feature product - praising Unix philosophy. The js code is of course publicly available:

http://github.com/dejanstrbac/SyncFu-Widget/blob/master/widg...

Yes, that is exactly how it should work. Here the price is/should be always guaranteed, as it drops with each reservation. So, there is no price for 1-10, 10-20. It always decreases proportionally.

Groupon and buywithme are cool, but centralization, just because of the purchasing model is not right iMHO. It would be much better that you have the option at the website of purchase, whether to buy now for the full price, or get in the group to buy later for a lower price. It's segmentation of the market.

This is the autotrigger url:

http://www.syncfu.com/ipad.html#dosyncfu