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ebf

184 karma · joined October 18, 2011

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ebf··on The Flat Sink
Fair enough, but considering I clarified why I said citation needed 14 hours before you posted and 5-10 minutes after I made the original comment, the fact that you and others are still attacking this statement, rather than the points I brought up, seems a bit silly to me.

Sure, I could have provided this clarification earlier, but I have already conceded that the original comment was snarky and lacking in context for such a short statement.

And to your specific comments:

>Are you really asking for a citation to a controlled study that measures readability of a flat and not flat designs?

Are you suggesting that this isn't testable? I guarantee Microsoft and others have tested it. If the author isn't prepared to provide data, then it should be presented as an opinion.

"I believe that..."

> - obviously true

If it is obviously true, then there must be data to back it, right?

>In addition, the statement is relative, allowing for successful designs that are flat. So examples of readable flat designs are irrelevant to the truth of the statement.

My point was in regards to this particular statement, which, in my opinion, is stated as a truth:

>Put everything on the same plane, and you make it harder to focus on a specific section of the page.

I've agreed in later comments that you can take "content over chrome" too far in UI design, but this statement is NOT necessarily true in regards to content existing on the same plane. Putting everything on the same plane does not mean that it is harder to focus on a specific section of the page. Poorly designed websites are hard to read, regardless of what plane the content exists. I merely pointed out that there are examples that do not fit this viewpoint. In fact, I would argue that these examples tend to be the most readable designs I've seen, but this is an opinion that I have, so I have made sure to clarify it merely as that: an opinion.

As I've posted below, I am tired of people posting articles or blogs (and others upvoting these posts) that are not backed by any data.

If something is posted as an opinion, then I agree that it doesn't need a citation. Unfortunately, there is a reoccurring theme that I've seen become more and more prevalent in the tech community, a theme where ideas are pushed as truths when the author has done nothing to show that there is actual, credible, merit to the conclusions that have been drawn.

If these ideas were presented in any academic circle without evidence, they would be disregarded and laughed at. Yet here we are, discussing a post with a +200 upvote count, and the author has done little to prove his or her point, besides cherry pick examples that suit his or her conclusions. Content existing on another plane MAY improve readability, but I cannot say for certain. But I can point out that there are some very readable websites that have their content and navigation exist all one one page.

I think we can all agree that bad design leads to bad readability. And content existing on the same plane isn't inherently bad design. Proper use of whitespace and good typography can go a long way to improving readability and the UX. See Bing results http://www.bing.com/search?q=hello+world&go=&qs=n... (although I'm not a big fan of their social sidebar, but the results page and the top level navigation, is in my opinion, very usable)

So why should anyone accept this presentation of ideas that are not prefaced with the fact that they are an opinion and are not backed by any data? Why is it snarky to ask for evidence of these ideas, yet in academia it is normal and encouraged to be skeptical? If I presented an idea to my boss, his first question would be where is the data to support this? If I proposed an idea to my advisor, he would ask why do I believe this and what is the supporting evidence for this claim.

Why are these types of posts continually upvoted? Is it because we want agree with the author's idea? Is it because others have already upvoted this, so therefore the author is probably right? I honestly do not understand. It isn't like it is impossible to test this.

ebf··on The Flat Sink
Do you have any evidence to support that you don't need evidence to backup facts or are you just being facetious?

If you said the world was flat, and someone asked for evidence, would you also ask that where is your evidence that you need evidence?

ebf··on The Flat Sink
When has flat design meant little to no margins? I'm genuinely curious about this interpretation of flat design.
ebf··on The Flat Sink
If someone pushes a statement as a fact and not as their opinion then they better be prepared to back it up it with evidence. End of story.
ebf··on The Flat Sink
Is it actually harder though? I don't think so. I think there is some truth to the idea that content over chrome is a good usability principle (obviously to an extent, Win8 takes it a little too far sometimes), and in my opinion, it is easier to learn proper use of whitespace and good typography than how to make textures and less "sterile" designs.

My point is you are stating your opinion as if it is a truth, when it isn't.

Sure, citation needed is a little snarky, but I disagree that it doesn't bring anything to the debate and is irrelevant. Maybe you could have pointed to usability studies, so there would at least be some data to back up your claim.

ebf··on The Flat Sink
>Put everything on the same plane, and you make it harder to focus on a specific section of the page.

Citation needed.

Edit: Since I'm getting downvoted, tell me that https://svbtle.com/ content isn't on the same plane and still readable? You can have everything on the same plane and with proper use of whitespace and good typography, it can be very readable.

Other examples:

http://daringfireball.net/

https://medium.com/about/9e53ca408c48

Hacker News

ebf··on 30 days with Windows Phone 8 — Perspective from an admitted iOS addict
Yea, it's a shame that a comment from someone who has barely used WP is at the top of this thread, as opposed to the people who have actually used it and iOS or Android heavily.
ebf··on 30 days with Windows Phone 8 — Perspective from an admitted iOS addict
Everyone loves Apple hardware. The iPhone hardware has always been the best, but I think the latest Nokia and even HTC phones for WP8 finally provide some great alternatives. I've never been very impressed with the hardware for Android from an aesthetical standpoint.
ebf··on SpaceX’s entry into $70 billion U.S. launch market draws Lockheed jab
If their budget gets cut, then they will be concerned.
ebf··on VLC for Windows 8 reaches $65,000 funding goal with five days to spare
I see this argument over and over, and I can't imagine why someone would go back to Win 7, even if all you use is the desktop.
ebf··on Photography’s Third Act
Well considering Snapchat isn't necessarily aimed at photography types and assuming you are older than the demographic that it is blowing up in (12-20 year olds), it makes sense that you haven't heard of it.
ebf··on Google Maps for iOS
I just went through a restore that also had Chrome on it and did not see a screen like that.
ebf··on Google Maps for iOS
Panning isn't as smooth as Apple Maps, but the map draws itself way faster.
ebf··on What Sinofsky’s Departure Suggests about Microsoft
I would argue that plenty of people want a full-featured version of Office on a tablet. Especially one with a useable keyboard.
ebf··on Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users
The desktop view in Win8 is hands down better than Win7. Even if you never use the metro apps, I would recommend upgrading to Win8.
ebf··on Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users
The other day, the note app got stuck for me when I touched an email address and tried to create a contact. I had to kill the app.
ebf··on The Pinterest Layout Will Not Save You
I'm not sure how you can judge the new MySpace when it isn't even out yet. For all we know, it could be a great example of a UI/UX.
ebf··on Social Login Buttons Aren’t Worth It
It's a Facebook page, not an app, so they won't post things to your wall. It seems they have contests and media on their page, as well as coupons. Those things will show on 300,000 Facebook newsfeeds. I'd say it's better to drive traffic to their Facebook page rather than http://www.charmin.com/ .
ebf··on Flutter Updated with Next and Previous Song Gestures For Mac
My keyboard doesn't have a pause button on it.
ebf··on Senate report: Microsoft used loopholes to avoid billions in taxes
> Because the Democrats want to press home the message that corporations and wealth are inherently evil in this election cycle...

Can we see quote from a Democrat saying this?

ebf··on A real fMRI high: My ecstasy brain scan
I was under the impression that ecstasy is mdma + an upper, while molly is "pure" mdma.
ebf··on Microsoft employees getting free Surface tablets, new work PCs, Windows Phone 8
That seems like a pretty vague explanation.
ebf··on Google Glass and the Future of Technology
Could you explain why Google has the hardware expertise? Besides their Nexus Q, what consumer hardware has Google made?
ebf··on Microsoft employees getting free Surface tablets, new work PCs, Windows Phone 8
Could you clarify why Windows 8 is Vista 2.0?
ebf··on Microsoft employees getting free Surface tablets, new work PCs, Windows Phone 8
The article states that company money cannot be used to purchase Apple products, not that Apple products are banned entirely. I know plenty of people that use iPhones on campus.
ebf··on Amazon's Play
- They are all over with their tablets trying to compete with iPad or Samsung ones, it doesn't seem to have the same focus of the original: simply a good device to consume digital content. They will lose if they try to compete like that, trying to release full-featured tablets at low margins.

Why would they lose? The Kindle Fire seems like a great device to consume content: movies, music, books, and also many popular Android apps.

- Their event is way too much like Apple's WWDC. I mean, even the slides look like they are done on Keynote. It doesn't give a good impression.

Doesn't give a good impression to whom? Do you think the average Amazon costumer cares? I don't.

ebf··on Harvard Students in Cheating Scandal Say Collaboration Was Accepted
The admissions formula is broken or the way the class was structured was broken?
ebf··on What college rankings really tell us
How would you know if it is actually true then and not just an urban legend? Marketing stunts don't make sense if no one knows about them.
ebf··on Microsoft’s Lost Decade
Obviously, it depends on how you define owning the consumer market.
ebf··on Social Video Sharing Glasses
It looks like their KickStarter was shut down for spammy tactics.

http://www.quora.com/Vergence-Labs/Why-did-Vergence-Labs-Kic...

http://llsocial.com/2012/06/kickstarter-indiegogo-misuses-co...

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