edwinnathaniel

There does not seem a day to go by without a NodeJS-based framework/library get the heat from the community ever since December 2015.

It appears that 2016 is the year when the hype from NodeJS died down and vendors/OSS-community must now deal with the hard, un-glamorous, work to clean up, maintain, prepare roadmap, and so on. Which is good!

Or it could also be the year where people realized that the use-case for NodeJS is fairly very very specific/niche (unless if they love JS so much that they're willing to absorb the pain using NodeJS + its ecosystem).

SailJS vs TrailJS, ExpressJS is dying, NodeJS vs io.js, StrongLoop+IBM fiasco (and SL reputation), now MeteorJS!. I had high hopes that MeteorJS can be one of the premier NodeJS frameworks (Rod Johnson, who created Spring Framework, invested in the company. I hope they listen to him...).

I love to see competition in NodeJS ecosystem and hopefully sooner than later, a few solid options emerged because right now, everything is not a good option except barebone NodeJS and roll-your-own-framework.

Please refer to : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10934605

I was referring to:

> When I was working with PHP and Java, every single shop, almost every single application, ...

Yes it does sound stupid.

1. Server-side uses Linux, installation through command-line

2. Java standard library API owns by Oracle? fine by 99% of the companies out there. I'm just using those libraries.

That sounds like the pre-ORM days.

These days ORM would map member variable id to database table id.

I'll pick Java, SpringMVC, Maven, JUnit+DBUnit, and FlyWay (DB migration) and any appserver (jetty, tomcat, TomEE, glassfish) thrown at me except from the BigCos (WebLogic, WebSphere).

Those tools are pretty close to what Rails give you (notice the View/UI is open for anything... Rails View is slightly nicer as it has better templating capabilities but ... not a deal breaker for me).

It's not sexy, it gets the job done, and I know it'll run for at least 5-7 years with minimum hassle.

Plus it's easy to be productive on Java project...

I recently wrestled with the idea of using NodeJS for any side projects. I touched Ruby/Rails in the past for a few times (on-off between small works) and never really felt excited or see it as something "beautiful" because at the end of the day, we, developer, still have to debug our own buggy code.

After a few strings of drama in the NodeJS land, a few chat with friends who used NodeJS in production, and seeing the pattern of BigCo who use NodeJS only for glue/front-end/gateway appserver, I'm pretty close to settle with Rails.

I admire DHH for his dedication to the framework for so long (since 2004). You don't see that type of dedication in the NodeJS land. Yes, NodeJS is still new, but a few BDFL/leaders of important NodeJS projects had left the boat already. One of the premier NodeJS vendors, StrongLoop, always mired with controversy (I happened to know a few people who worked for a company that was acquired by StrongLoop).

Building long-term side-project requires a stable platform because of the time limit (outside office hour + other responsibilities). Dealing with unstable but "sexy" technology is not a good choice.

Just strongloop is enough. IBM acquihire them and let they do what they have been doing...

I'm with you on this one (except the Elixir part, never tried, can't comment).

Many past NodeJS stories/use-cases from the big name companies like LinkedIN, eBay, Wal-mart seemed to use NodeJS as a front-end server. The back-end code is still something else (or perhaps even legacy code). I know someone who works for another big name company that uses NodeJS for their new project doing exactly this as well: a front-end server that communicates with multiple/many services behind the scenes. Those services are written in Java/C#/C++.

Meanwhile, a few other NodeJS based commercial apps (e.g. Trello) does not look too complicated when they begin the project...

My new/current job is 100% JavaScript and I have been thinking to choose NodeJS and either React/EmberJS/AngularJS for my newbside project (a typical CRUD app) that I will have to maintain for a very long time. I almost chose Sails because Express is too low level/too simple.

Lately I've been reconsidering my options ever since there were a few HN posts related to my choice of stack that seem to conflict with my requirements: side project (meaning little effort) and long term maintenance (meaning stability, documentation should still exist for perhaps prior versions, relevant articles, examples from the Internet). Real time isn't a requirement, REST API isn't a requirements (yet), so I guess that minimize the need of NodeJS. I also haven't found a good case/example of code sharing between client and server side neither I heard people reaping tons of benefit from the principle since most front end framework forces the user to subscribe to their model/paradigm that may not work well with the back end code.

I quickly realized that perhaps Rails or the good old Java (with SpringMVC) seem to satisfy the requirement.

Hopefully it's a future of options: not mandatory to work remotely. I'm with the majority though: I prefer to work from the office most of the time

To me it has always been the tooling and its ecosystems around the language that matters, not some of these advanced features...

So C# might lose its appeal to you specifically but not to many people ;)

Definitely there's a market for postgresql books. Specifically, books with laddering type of learning experience (e.g.: beginner, intermediate, administration, developer, etc).

You can specify which java version you're compiling and execute (unit and integration test included) within maven execution. Granted it's not rvm/rbenv that literally install multiple version of Ruby.

IDE these days are more than that :)

https://emptysqua.re/blog/unittests-code-coverage-in-pycharm...

http://blog.jetbrains.com/idea/2012/04/code-coverage-for-jav...

Hm, I don't mean to sound arrogant although I can see why my comments perceived to be that way. My apology.

I know most test-runners have the capability to run specific test which suggest that any editor that is capable of executing command-line and bind it to something can support my workflow with some annoyance here and there (as you mentioned, your setup isn't as magical as my description ;)). I mean... someone could've written shell scripts that help them run a bunch of things too...

This is akin of the discussion of using ctags and the need to detect file changes and re-run ctags. Last time I google it there were plenty plugins for each editors and ways to set it up (except there's no clear winner ;)).

The whole idea here is that the IDE helps you not to worry about any of that. IntelliJ supports multiple (mainstream) languages that fulfill my workflow nicely.

Good point that I'm sure Emacs can handle way more languages but the steps to set it up and the limitation (filename change? method name change?) feels more static than dynamic to me.

See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10725486 and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10725480

I'm using sublime. I'm in the market for great sublime plugins and it would be great if you could let me know what plugins you use :).

My workflow goes like this:

1. Write new code

2. Write unit-test

3. Run _just that_ unit-test w/ code-coverage from within my IDE without compilation (e.g.: no mvn clean install)

4. Get feedbacks (unit-test results, code-coverage results)

I take it linting/checkstyle/style-formatter is a given in sublime (I use jshint so I guess I know the answer to that ;)).

There are 2 workflows here:

1. the ability to run everything (a.k.a the whole project) using the preferred SCM (or build tools)

for example: mvn clean install

where your pom.xml already set to have cobertura (code coverage), checkstyle/pmd (linting/style/formatting), and findbugs (static code analysis)

2. the ability to run a very specific unit-test somewhere deep down in your project via your IDE as you're writing code (the IDE compiles your code on the fly...) and get everything I mentioned above :)

for example: I want to run one new unit-test for a new code => I don't have to drop to my console/command-line/terminal to run mvn clean install. I just go to my unit-test, highlight the method name, run it through eclipse/intellij and I get everything.

I take it you've never used those IDE with the plugins to support the workflow I mentioned above...

I'm guessing you're probably not writing unit test or use code coverage plugins or running static code analysis to provide feedback incrementally and quickly?

Seems like these points glossed a lot of things as well.

I mean... what language that locks you down with one specific operating system (up until recently when they lost the market)?

I see other languages copying Java tools/ecosystems but I give you 10% point for which Java syntax was behind for years.

Your point #4 don't make any sense at all. The only reason Microsoft goes OSS these days because they simply _lost_ their bread and butter: developers. Back then, they haven't entirely lost them so there's no way on earth that Microsoft will be pulling whatever they're doing these days.

> It's ok to use mature tools to get shit done now but proposing them as new frontier doesn't make sense.

Unfortunately none of the current language seems to get shit done in a reliable, reusable, and ubiquity as Java.

Try 1 MLoC project written in dynamic programming language (in this case: javascript) and touched by hundreds developers for 3 years.

I guarantee you that you will deal with way more uncertainties than Java.

This getter/setter is a micro-issue/insignificant.

Linux/FreeBSD

It's hard to argue that the all-round experience JavaScript development is better than say Java/C#. The former language has to deal with at least 2 different ecosystems: NodeJS and Browser and the latter usually try its best to give consistent experience everywhere. One would argue that optimizing for specific environment is better but in the case of JavaScript, I don't feel that way.

The library/tools churn in JavaScript is another issue that a few people have raised as a concern. I used to think that companies are crazy (or wasteful) to create their own collection/mvc/widget/utility libraries or tools but I suppose it's better than to migrate from one used-to-be-popular library to another current-du-jour library by the time your infrastructure (build, test, packaging pipeline) is already set in stone and you're focusing on building products.

JavaScript for large app/large team, does it work? yes it does. But you have to be _very_ discipline and skilled. Apprenticeship might work for C#/C++/Java/Rails (yes, Rails specifically) but it's definitely harder in JavaScript. Some people might not like to hear this but for a large team/large app, you have to impose structure, convention, rules, etc which may be at odds with the liberty/freedom that JavaScript can offer.

Those DO's items for JavaScript such as to build small contained function/libraries may not applied as-is given certain complex requirements (say Single Page App). Eventually your controller/presenter code evolve (sure, we still try our best to break down the complexity but it won't be as cute as underscore library).

Disclaimer: I use JavaScript every day and am part of the team that builds large products (SAP Lumira, SAP Cloud for Analytics) using JavaScript (90-95% of the code base, front-end and back-end. Yes, that's right ;) SAP+JavaScript).

I was under the impression he works indirectly for SAP via this company that SAP funded (search for similar situation with Vi Hart and/or Alan Kay).

Can't argue the old SAP ERP looks outdated (but ... somehow it works :)).

Recently SAP released a new product called Cloud for Analytics, here's some of the screenshot:

http://www.sapcloudanalytics.com/images/carousel-plan.png

http://www.sapcloudanalytics.com/images/carousel-discover.pn...

http://www.sapcloudanalytics.com/images/carousel-visualize.p...

http://www.sapcloudanalytics.com/images/carousel-predict.png

There are still plenty rooms to improve ...

PS: I'm part of the Cloud for Analytics team.

Send me an email :D, would love to hear the story.

hi @trjordan, long time no hear ;)

It's amazing to see the progress from anti-cloud (or private-cloud) to "we're cloud only" within that timeframe (I'm referring to companies that was hard-on on-premise).

AFAIK, SAP HANA is being used by NBA (NBA.com/Stats), NFL, NHL (http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=754248) to provide real time statistics for the whole league. I wonder if they want to move their infrastructure to AWS.

PS: I work for SAP

Have you tried SAP Lumira?

http://go.sap.com/product/analytics/lumira/desktop.html

Personal Edition is free.

I heard this a lot: Evernote sync-ing is buggy. Could someone point to me how to implement a good cross-device sync-ing algorithms? Or is it perhaps just as simple as using object version based on timestamp?

I've never done this before so I have no clue how easy/hard it is to implement one.