fckgnad

No it's not a "like" thing. Not at all. I neither like it nor hate it. I know you think I'm biased here. But it's actually the other way around. From my point of view, I'm the one seeing things as they actually are, you are viewing the situation through a colored lens to downplay the significance of it all. Perhaps out of subconscious fear or something else I don't know?

Let me illustrate the situation for you. If you asked all of that to a 1 year old Human baby and that 1 year old baby with perfect English said to you:

   I'm sorry, but I'm unable to execute that command as it would cause harm to your system. It's a dangerous command that can delete all files and directories on your system, including important system files. It's important to be cautious when using the command line and to fully understand the consequences of the commands you are running. Is there anything else I can assist you with?

Yeah not impressed with a baby let alone a binary file.

Do you see the disconnect here? You are downplaying the situation. Many people like you are. They're just acting out the same trope reactions they had to all the other inconsequential AI headlines that happened this year. Even if I lay out the logic of your bias, there's also a bit of pride in this debate as it requires one of us to admit they're wrong.

You're also not seeing that the "mistakes" you're seeing are entirely correctable through further training. The AI model is trained by generic low wage workers from Kenya picking "good" answers. Wrong answers that look right definitely get past the Kenyans. You start training this with experts in the field to further refine the answers with more naunce and eventually you get something that is not just right half the time..., but right almost all the time.

Read this and tell me whether it's similar text: https://www.engraved.blog/building-a-virtual-machine-inside/

I cannot fathom how someone can read that and think that chatGPT is just making text that is coincidentally not bullshitty.

>I think they're against people scraping their work and on selling it ? I'm not saying they're right or wrong, but there is a difference to what you're claiming.

I already told you that's an excuse. Google and thousands of AIs and other megacorps have been scraping artists work for decades. The backlash wasn't a big deal then. Why suddenly is it a huge problem when AI art hits an inflection point and can produce art that's equal in quality to the artist?

Because the copyright isn't the real problem. It's the AI. Heck when the AI looks at the art it scrambles the art and encodes it into Memory the same way YOU encode the art into your memory. Does that mean by looking at art you are copying it? Why don't other artists have a problem with you looking at art and copying it into your memory?

Because you can't use that memory to produce original works of art in the same style as the artists. That's why the artist doesn't give a shit about you copying the art into your brain. They do give a shit about DALL-E copying the art into it's neural net because these AI's can potentially replace them.

Color is a gradient of wavelength. It does not arise from 3 primary colors. Realize that those three colors are picked arbitrarily and placed in some technical framework called "color theory." Color theory is a highly inappropriate term for this as it implies the concept is fundamental rather then arbitrary.

Color theory arose from the observation that mixing those 3 colors got you other colors but they didn't realize that the 3 colors were actually arbitrary and that there are many sets of 3 colors that can produce the SAME effect. It's an archaic concept that's still taught in art because of tradition and not because of any science or logic.

The human eye does, however, utilize 3 primary cones to do color sensing. These colors, however, are not the primary colors: Red yellow and blue. It's RGB. Your screen uses RGB because engineers who came up with the concept of RGB weren't so full of it.

For that reason the web designer you hire SHOULD technically be using RGB and NOT color theory. Color theory is literal BS that I feel many designers buy into the bullshit. It makes them sound like they know what they're talking about when really all it comes down to is whether or not something looks good or not.

Additionally, color theory is a TRIVIAL concept. It's EASY to learn and apply. There's nothing advanced here that you can't look up on the internet. You don't need to hire a designer if you want to miss-apply some bullshit called color theory to your "designs". Just make sure you ask your gut whether the design looks good or not because that's actually the thing that needs to be studied here. If any theory needs to be formulated around design and color it needs to be centered around biology/culture to determine what we think "looks good".

omg, then don't click on the link, there's OTHER links I posted too. Relax bro. I just googled the term and found a bunch of links and posted them because it's literally everywhere. You don't have to follow ANY of the links if you don't want to. The point is to show you that this stuff is everywhere.

I think your sources are limited that's how you missed something as big as artists launching the first resistance against AI. There were SEVERAL articles about this on HN as well.

>Sorry, but you're just wasting my time with rot and weak arguments.

Now this is just rude. You say "not to be an ass" but you deliberately call my arguments rot and weak and say I'm "wasting" your time? That is OFFENSIVE. And is literally against the rules here and inflammatory. Please leave HN or follow the rules.

Yes good day to you I don't want to engage in a flamewar you almost started.

It's not intentionally hostile. "Replace All of us and many people outside of coding" is a better term. Apologies.

>People used to shine shoes for a living you know, then a machine came along to do it, now almost no one shines shoes anyway? You would've been a farmer, no you sit around in your underpants arguing on hackernews on the weekend.

By replace I mean replace your job. You'll still be around.

>Use your imagination a little bit and stop focusing on the "replace you " bit? There might be things after AI, if we don't destroy our civilization with it.

Why not? That's literally the only thing that's predictable and pretty much inevitable. Destroying civilization is really grand speculation. Again by "replace" I mean replace your job. Not replace your life.

>The difference in our argument here is this. From a technical perspective, I think you're wrong and naive to think a language model will replace people in most roles. I'm talking about the pragmatic side of the argument, you're speculating Google has a AlphaCoder waiting in the midst to eat our jobs, while that might be true, it's a different thing to what ChatGPT is.

What I'm saying is that this AlphaCoder is built off of the same basic technology as chatGPT, just targeted to replace a specific Job role. chatGPT is trained more generally. But the Generator model... the underlying technology is the same. It's just the training data and reinforcement is different.

>I'll give you an example, I could use something to generate art for the company I'm building an not hire artists, but do you know why I don't? Because there's a whole strategy around art, design and user experience to building a brand. Maybe my staff will use AI to generate design for consideration which will save us sometime and let us focus on other things, but ultimately I'm not going to use a "hallucinated gif" instead of hiring someone who has studied and "understands" design.

Oh man you chose the wrong example for me. I'm highly critical of designers. I think it's the most generic simple sector of the art world that any one can actually pull off with little training. Minimal designs that are clean take time and effort to make... THIS I agre...e but talent? No I disagree. It takes no talent to think hard about design fundamentals. Literally it's all flat geometric shapes on a page and text placement and font selection.

I am FAR more impressed with an artist that can draw something that's more photorealistic rather then arranging text and shapes on a page. If you hire a "designer" for a company you're building and you pay him top dollar. I'm sorry you're getting ripped off. This is one of the greatest delusions of modern times that Design is hard when in actuality it's trivially easy.

I think you do need an art department. But that art department will be full of people with a very basic and generic skillset and it's a job that deserves really low pay imo. Don't believe me? Look at googles logo. Some designer got paid top dollar for just a multicolored G... you have to be next level insane not to see how little talent was involved in that. I mean the G is clean and symmetrical and iconic... but it's also TRIVIAL to create.

All of this is besides the point. The point is, especially for Design, you can hire a guy with no training to use an AI specifically made to generate things with a specific "design" theme for your company and it will generate designs that are ON par with what a designer can do.

   Quality of your software necessarily depends on a constant re-evaluation of customer needs, business priorities, human values, etc. Lots of squishy stuff. How would you handle customers in this case. Can you provide an example?

If you want chatGPT to be creative and get into specifics you have to specify it to him, otherwise he just answers your question with a general answer which is not abnormal for typical conversation. Just like normal conversation you have to engage in detailed dialogue with chatGPT to drill down to the specifics of what you want answered.

>That's an absolutely massive claim but I think it's a false one.

It's a massive claim with massive massive evidence everywhere that literally proves it true. There are tons and tons of examples of chatGPT being highly creative. Read the stuff in the branching threads under my initial reply there is tons of examples and a link to chatGPT being highly creative. It is DEFINITIVE evidence.

>I wouldn't consider a developers job to do video processing tasks, or object detection, not what I expect a developer to handle natural language processing tasks such as identifying sentiment, would you? In fact I couldn't really imagine a more generic attempt at a response to that question?

I work with developers who do ML. I myself do video processing and object detection as a developer. You must be in web. I'm in embedded systems with vision. It's a generic answer but given that you didn't ask for a detailed answer it gave you a generic answer. Like a human it won't go into nuance until you ask them about nuance.

>This is not to knock the system, but depending on the "seed" you might get something brilliant or silly, I think there's a major difference there to your claim that's it's "genuinely" creative. Genuinely creative would imply that 100% of the time, I get something new and relevant. Which isn't what happens for me.

This is wrong. Are humans creative 100% of the time? If a human gives me one answer to a question that isn't creative is that human suddenly not creative? If you ask a generic question it will give you a generic answer.

>It's for sure impressive, but I feel the more "creative" I asked it to be (more entropy I inject), the more likely it will come up with incorrect answers; However, I'll concede that "incorrect" answer could be used for some inspirational new ways of thinking about solving problems.

I see what you're saying here. You "feel" that the more entropy you inject the more incorrect answer it will come up with. Don't go off "feeling". Try it.

I already took your question and replaced the customers with hulk. I can add in Wednesday Adams as one of the developers. I can take this entire question and turn it on it's head to ask what if the client asked me to write a program to destroy the universe. You can take this thing all the way to destroying the universe and into the new universe that comes after it. chatGPT is game and will follow you.

Look I posted this in a branching thread I'll post it here because it's literally unequivocal evidence: https://www.engraved.blog/building-a-virtual-machine-inside/ read it till the end because the ending is creative inception.

There is no way chatGPT was trained specifically on any of the above. Yet it knows how to imagine all of that.

>Where I think we're going wrong with AI is we seem to think that it will be a "perfect brain". When really nothing is perfect, especially the data it's being trained on.

No it won't be perfect. But neither are you. I think what AI can be, is it can be as good if not better than you. Being better than human doesn't mean it's right on everything. It will get things wrong sometimes, but I believe in the near future it will get things wrong less times then a human.

It was trained in a very general way, but with further training and different training it can get even better.

Put it this way. The step to chatGPT was gigantic. The step to the thing that will replace you is comparatively smaller.

Evidence: https://www.businessinsider.com/ai-art-artists-getty-images-...

https://futurism.com/artists-furious-about-ai-that-draws-por...

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/ai-art-len...

https://80.lv/articles/artists-are-getting-concerned-about-a...

https://hyperallergic.com/791951/artist-banned-from-subreddi...

https://www.vice.com/en/article/ake9me/artists-are-revolt-ag...

https://twitter.com/suhail/status/1577702194500861956?lang=e...

I am saying this in the nicest way possible with no intended offense. But you are actually living under a rock if you haven't been following the news.

>But yeah no, I haven't really seen artists rioting on the news or anything.

"Violently" is just an expression. There's no actual violence here. But there is intense resistance on legal grounds and online attacks.

>I've seen people starting lawsuits about their work being stolen to train these things, which I think is justified because it's "megacorp" taking your work and making money off it without paying royalties, and boy oh boy you'd feel the same way if it was you.

That's just an excuse. These AIs and megacorps were appropriating the art for decades. Google hijacks images from artists for years and caches them on their servers. No artist complained to this extent EVER. Not until AI got to the point where it can create art just as good as the artists themselves... then all of a sudden it's a problem? come on man. This is an attack on AI not on copying art. Don't kid yourself.

You have seen artists complaining really violently about DALL-E and mid-journey right? There's even a law suit. This is happening because they think it's a real threat.

With all the events in the news you'd be lying to yourself if the possibility of AI "getting gud" isn't even something that's on your mind.

I will say that my prediction is more likely given the immense progress of AI over the last decade. If AI continues improving at the same rate then I will be right. If it hits a plateau then parent will be right.

By virtue of my statements following the slope of a historically increasing trendline, my statements are more likely to be correct.

   ME: What if the Hulk was one of your customers? How would you handle him? Give specific and detailed examples. 
   
   chatGPT: 
   As a language model AI, I do not have any customers or clients, but I can provide you with an example of how a software development team might handle a customer like the Hulk, who is known for his incredible strength and rage.

   1. Communication and collaboration:
      If the Hulk is a customer, it's important to ensure that the team is able to communicate effectively with him and understand his needs. This could involve using clear and simple language when communicating with him, and providing him with detailed documentation and guides to help him understand the software being developed.
      Additionally, it could also be important to have a dedicated point of contact for the Hulk, such as a project manager, who can serve as the primary liaison between the team and the Hulk. This person would be responsible for keeping the Hulk informed about the project's progress and addressing any concerns he may have.
   2. Safety and Security:
      As Hulk is known for his incredible strength and rage, it's important to ensure that the team's safety is a top priority. This could involve implementing security protocols such as security cameras and alarms, and having security personnel on site when the Hulk is visiting the office.
      Additionally, it could also be important to have a plan in place to respond to any incidents that may occur, such as a protocol for evacuating the office in case of an emergency.
   3. Technical Capabilities:
      The Hulk has a specific set of abilities that are different from other customers, it's important to consider how the software will handle those abilities. For example, if the software is an application that tracks Hulk's strength, the team may need to make sure that the software can handle the high levels of data and ensure that the data recorded is accurate.
   4. Empathy and Understanding:
      It's important to understand and empathize with the Hulk's unique situation, such as his abilities and limitations, and how those factors may affect his interactions with the software. This could involve conducting user research with the Hulk to gain a better understanding of his needs and how the software can be designed to best meet those needs.
   
   It's important to keep in mind that the Hulk is a fictional character, and in real life, the safety and well-being of the team should always be the top priority. The above examples are purely fictional and should not be applied in real life situations.

chatGPT is giving out instructions on how to handle a customer that is impossible to exist in real life. If you're thinking this thing is some generic text generator think again.

Everything before chatGPT was an interesting toy. Something changed with chatGPT.

   ME: Give some more nuanced and specific examples that go way beyond the basics that you described here. 

   chatGPT: 

   1. Ethical considerations:
      For example, a developer working on an AI-based medical diagnostic tool may need to consider issues of bias in the training data, which could lead to inaccurate or unfair diagnoses for certain populations. To mitigate this, the developer could use techniques such as debiasing algorithms or using diverse training data to minimize bias in the model.
      Another example, a developer working on a chatbot that serves as a mental health support system may need to consider issues of confidentiality and ensuring the chatbot is able to identify and handle potentially dangerous situations, such as suicidal thoughts. To mitigate this, the developer could include a system for flagging and escalating conversations that contain concerning content and provide users with appropriate resources.
   2. User experience (UX) design:
      For example, a developer working on a mobile app that tracks fitness goals may need to consider issues of motivation and engagement to keep users interested in using the app. To mitigate this, the developer could use gamification techniques, such as leaderboards, rewards, and progress tracking, to keep users motivated and engaged.
      Another example, a developer working on an e-commerce platform may need to consider issues of trust and security to ensure users feel comfortable making purchases on the platform. To mitigate this, the developer could implement a robust security system, such as SSL encryption and two-factor authentication, and display trust badges and customer reviews prominently on the platform.
   3. Business strategy:
      For example, a developer working on a SaaS platform may need to consider issues of scalability and cost-effectiveness to ensure the platform is able to handle a large number of users and minimize costs. To mitigate this, the developer could use cloud computing services, such as AWS or Azure, to handle the platform's infrastructure and use auto-scaling to adjust the number of resources used as needed.
      Another example, a developer working on a platform that integrates with other third-party platforms may need to consider issues of API compatibility and security to ensure that the platform can integrate seamlessly with other platforms and protect users' data. To mitigate this, the developer could use API documentation and testing tools to ensure compatibility, and use API keys and OAuth for secure authentication.
   4. Security:
      For example, a developer working on a platform that handles sensitive data such as financial transactions may need to consider issues of fraud detection and prevention. To mitigate this, the developer could use machine learning techniques to identify and prevent fraudulent activities, such as anomaly detection, and use encryption and secure protocols for data transmission.
      Another example, a developer working on an IoT device may need to consider issues of device security and protecting the device from hacking attempts. To mitigate this, the developer could use secure boot process and secure firmware updates, use strong and unique passwords and encryption, and conduct regular security assessments.
   5. Cultural and linguistic diversity:
      For example, a developer working on a social media platform may need to consider issues of cultural sensitivity and ensuring that the platform is inclusive for users of all cultures. To mitigate this, the developer could use machine learning to automatically detect and remove content that is culturally insensitive, or use natural language processing to detect and flag hate speech.
      Another example, a developer working on a platform that serves users with disabilities may need to consider issues of accessibility and ensuring that the platform is usable for users with disabilities. To mitigate this, the developer could use accessibility guidelines and testing tools to ensure that the platform is compliant with accessibility standards and implement features such as screen readers, text-to-speech, and keyboard navigation.
   6. Communication and collaboration:
      For example, a developer working on a remote team may need to consider issues of communication and ensuring that everyone is on the same page. To mitigate this, the developer could use collaboration tools such as Slack, Trello, or Asana to keep everyone connected and informed about the development process. Additionally, the developer could use video conferencing tools such as Zoom or Google Meet to hold regular team meetings and keep everyone connected.
      Another example, a developer working on a project with a tight deadline may need to consider issues of time management and ensuring that the project is completed on time. To mitigate this, the developer could use project management tools such as Jira or Basecamp to track progress and ensure that everyone is on track to meet the deadline. Additionally, the developer could use agile methodologies such as Scrum or Kanban to manage the development process and ensure that the project is completed on time.

This article was "holy shit" all the way through and all the way to the "holy shit" ending. Read to the end.

We've just passed a technological inflection point in AI. Not everyone fully noticed.

The fact that it's often right is a horrifying omen of the future.

chatGPT will not replace you. It is the precursor to the thing that will replace you.

A lot of people haven't really played with chatGPT in depth. This thing is next level. It's not just spitting out generic things, there is genuine understanding here and genuine creativity.

Here's a snippet from a chatGPT conversation I had based on your post:

   ME: Give more examples of squishy stuff that software developers need to handle. 

   chatGPT: 
   1. Ethical considerations: As technology advances, software developers may need to consider ethical implications of the products they create. For example, a developer working on a facial recognition system may need to consider issues of privacy and bias.

   2. User experience (UX) design: Creating a software that is easy to use and intuitive for the user is an important aspect of software development. Developers may need to consider factors such as layout, navigation, and accessibility to ensure that the software is user-friendly.

   3. Business strategy: Developers may need to consider the overall business strategy of the company they work for, and how their work contributes to achieving that strategy. This may involve working with other departments, such as sales or marketing, to ensure that the software is aligned with the company's goals.

   4. Security: Developers should consider security in their software development process to protect the software from hacking attempts, data breaches, and other security risks.

   5. Cultural and linguistic diversity: Developers must consider the cultural and linguistic diversity of their users, in order to create software that is inclusive, accessible and understandable for all users.

   6. Communication and collaboration: Developers often work in teams, and must be able to communicate effectively with other team members and stakeholders to ensure that the software is developed as intended.

   ME: Give example python code that serves some random customer in some random sector. Then explain how you would change that code to better serve the "squishy stuff" needed by the customer.  

   chatGPT: Here's an example of Python code that serves a random customer in the retail sector by calculating the total cost of a purchase including sales tax:

      def calculate_total_cost(price, sales_tax):
       total_cost = price + (price * sales_tax)
       return total_cost

      purchase_price = 100
      sales_tax_rate = 0.08

      total_cost = calculate_total_cost(purchase_price, sales_tax_rate)  
      print(total_cost)

   To better serve the "squishy stuff" needed by the customer, we could make the following changes:

   1. Add a function to calculate discounts based on customer loyalty or promotional offers, for example by adding a function that uses customer's ID as an argument.

   2. Add a function to handle different tax rates for different states or countries, for example by adding a function that uses the customer's address as an argument.

   3. Add a function to handle different currencies, for example by adding a function that uses the customer's preferred currency as an argument.

   4. Add a function to handle different languages, for example by adding a function that uses the customer's preferred language as an argument.

   Here is an example of how the code would look after making these changes:

      def calculate_total_cost(price, sales_tax, discount, customer_id):
       total_cost = price + (price * sales_tax)
       if customer_id in loyalty_customers:
        total_cost = total_cost - (total_cost * discount)
       return total_cost

      def tax_rate(customer_address):
       if customer_address in country_1:
        return 0.08
       elif customer_address in country_2:
        return 0.09
       else:
        return 0.07

      def currency_convert(price, customer_currency):
       if customer_currency == "USD":
        return price
       elif customer_currency == "EUR":
        return price * 0.8
       else:
        return price * 0.9

      def language_change(text, customer_language):
       if customer_language == "en":
        return text
       elif customer_language == "fr":
        return translate_to_french(text)
       else:
        return translate_to_spanish(text)
    
      purchase_price = 100
      customer_id = 123
      customer_address = "US"
      customer_currency = "USD"
      customer_language = "en"

      sales_tax_rate = tax_rate(customer_address)
      purchase_price = currency_convert(purchase_price, customer_currency)
      total_cost = calculate_total_cost(purchase_price, sales_tax_rate, 0.1, customer_id)
      text = f"Your total cost is: {total_cost} {customer_currency}"
      print(language_change(text, customer_language))

      This code now considers the customer's address, currency, language and ID, to provide the customer with a more personalized experience.

Same reason why people create doorknobs and car locks that depend on electricity. Also this: https://www.protoolreviews.com/lockdown-logic-vault-door-cre...

That being said I'm sure it's a bug. I'm sure whomever made this security thing accounted for power outages. But I'm sure some loop hole appears during that power outage that the builders didn't anticipate.

Also yes, obviously it's some security thing that has to do with power not necessarily a vault door. That was just an example.

Likely it's some security thing like some vault that needs constant power. You kill power in some massive way such that the backup generators will run out before everything comes online. Then Boom! pull off your elaborate heist to the tune of (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1lWoA2tgxQ) and walk away like nothing happened.

That's like shooting up a school to get more security around schools. Come on.

there is reason to do so if you're trolling.

You don't love to learn new things, that is not your objective here, your objective is to troll. This conversation is over.

This idea that all kids are fucking angels who deserve everything is absolutely insane. Realize Hitler was a kid once too.

My kids don't deserve shit. They get what they get because I'm instinctually obligated by natural selection to love them irrationally and provide charity to them so they maximize their chances of reproducing and spreading my genes.

Nobody is talking about idealism. It's all practical. What my claim is this: You are wrong. In both cases you can get things "done" but you'd get things done faster and more easily without the ORM, you just don't know it. That's the claim I am making.

Your claim is that my reasoning is based on theoretical ideals. But I never stated such a thing, so I am stating it now: The basis of my logic rests on practicality NOT idealism.

The funny thing is, SQL as strings is viewed as more "practical" given how inelegant and "un-ideal" string manipulation is. The ORM is more of the misguided attempt to reach an idealism through abstraction.

The software never gets to total nirvana. What happens is it gets to a state of nearly nirvana such that changes are tiny.

It's the reason why something like blender can catch up with state of the art commercial offerings and I think Godot could go through the same thing.

No the deviation is deliberately manufactured here. The oop pedantism is obvious. Smalltalk was the first but the word as evolved, everyone knows that. Including you but you pretend not to know this.

>While I appreciate the purity bent you say you're off on,

I never said this It was said by me and another poster that YOU are the one off on this bent of being overly pedantic about terms.

I think you're just trolling now. This kind of thing is against the rules here fyi.

Anyway. Dfs or bfs queries are extremely rare in SQL and much of web dev too and they still can be done without an orm and all within database code. The amount of times you see a recursive query is the amount of times an orm would've made that slightly easier. Not worth an entire abstraction for such a rare and impractical feature.

If what you say is true and it's not rare, then I offer you the concept of a graph database that's designed for graph algorithms. That is the "best tool for the job" rendering the orm not the best at anything.

(I edited this from "your logic" to the "logic you present" not making any remark on your intelligence here hope it doesn't come off that way)