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West has done too much in the middle east that we are here. It was West to find WMD, CMDs and to install so-called democracy here and there, it was not Russia. I think Russian is doing the necessary cleanup the West as made.

Yes its depressing to see lot of dead people under the rug of so-called liberal journalism and we are siting on that rug and talking about democracy and how to remove a dictator because we dont like him etc etc. I do like the "literary" ideas (don't know if that right word) which does not work practically. I am more concerned about the livelihood of people (alive), democracy is not for dead people.

I don't deny the benefits of information age, that is huge blessings for everyone. Probably it will take some time to reap the real benefits but I am afraid the cost is getting higher, as too much information/disinformation to filter out facts from fictions. And in most of the cases states and media agencies are part of that fiction and friction created in the society, take it China or US.

Give me example of one single country that is not waging any war or complicit of it ?

The other point is why the world should go by force for democracy?

Democracy is freedom, I don't like that democracy I am happy with dictatorship why someone should cry ? ( not pointing at you).

Lets say whole population is happy with their dictator and living a decent life,unless someone is arming rebels and inciting political turmoil by funding innocent people. Why you should interfere in their lives ?

So the question here is , is this political turmoil in China is happening purely by the desire of local populace or someone is funding because they have a hidden agenda ? As we have seen in recent year and seeing this elsewhere e.g in Syria where Us and West are engaged , this has not been just local desire but neighbors and everyone else interested in certain Geo-political goals, which kills the idea and need for democracy.

Democracy should come by learning by indigenous people, for indigenous it should not be "MY" desire or someone else desire.

I think its not "ridiculous" if you look at the outcome the narrative of fee societies is democracy which they use as weapon to destroy and plunder other countries, capture resources. I am not concerned how much a state is good with their own people but if they are using that same context to wage a war in another part of world that is so bad, uncivilized and undemocratic. For example if China start to export their socialism through force and use that to capture resources I ll be first to oppose that idea. China is massively big country with its third-world problems and new digital age issues one cannot suggest same pill as use in west.

West has lost all moral ground to become a world leader on these issues after what has happen and is happening to various middle eastern countries in recent day.

And what is current happening to these communities in China are direct side effect of West's interest in these issues and exploitation (e.g their rebel leader is current living in American) and every country has right to clean their backyard not just US or some other country.

Well if you start to kill people on street and doing nasty things that is not impossible to tag the knives :). If you look in to history of this particular area there have been fierce street fighting and there was a tradition or culture to hang your sword/dagger or knife around your waist (before these new laws established). I think that is for public security and peace its not oppression and the law is tailored to address their local needs.

I think that is because they have large populace to deal with

I think Chinese are not that smart to use some fancy words like "freedom of speech" "democracy" "individual liberty" but still doing same things as all other is doing. The problem here is how some country builds narrative and justification around her actions.

Digital age is double edge sword and everyone is going to bleed under the pretext of security.

Nor I am trying to say that China is right ! But building narrative based on half-cooked idea that some country thinks works for her should also work for whole humanity is insane.(that is directed at main article not you sorry)

That is the real problem with the liberty now. And I think liberty is dead under the pile of fake news generated by various parties interested in any issue. From war on terror to democracy and nuclear weapons the "agents" as you called, generates such a perception that we cannot escape, let alone our psychological biases and national, political and religious affiliations -- Welcome to the age of disinformation

I understand and I agree with you on that matter. But do you think that west is not part of that oppression by imposing sanction of various countries and resulting in degraded quality of life ? Don't you think they armed rebels that resulted in much chaos and death and inhumanity ? If someone is dead there is no talk of humanity and liberty. Liberty starts with peace. I understand that there are certain area where China and other countries can improve but other countries should not use that as pretext for their political and economical agenda. And indeed there is much more lot space and areas for west has to workout given they have made such tremendous scientific and economical development.West's actions don't reflect their achievements.

And another point is liberty given by democracy is useless if that does not translates to wishes of the populace and that is happening right now in West and US. Its there but has no effect

Are they different now ? and to worst of our dreams they are now evolved to "imperialist" monster. They might look good in books only. I do not see any of them, see UN for example, the center for 21th century's humanity.

Well said. West always sees or interferes into other countries without knowing any cultural, religious or political background. And on another level that is not also different from dictatorship. I live on the other side of the China (Pakistan) and too my observation Uighers are little bit or angry (not finding good word). Few years back it was not safe to roam freely in Urumqi and everyone used to hang daggers of all king around their waist. Sometime fierce fighting might erupt on small pity things and people get slaughtered more like the situation American are having with GUNS right now.

Man why you are sharking all 'crooked' links from Indian MSM? Any agenda or just killing time ?

Chauvinism has blinded lots of people around the world and there is no difference b/w killing innocent people or killing terrorist. Cross shelling and killing innocent people is not heroic. I ll tell you what is heroic in this fragmented world - peace ,love and respect for humanity

You can say same thing about anything you dislike or don't know e.g "_ is probably worst" and I would suggest some words e.g democracy , West, Christianity.

Don't you think those "other religious people" may have used religion as pretext to achieve whatever they desired. E.g currently "democratic" societies act the same way to spread "democracy" through all means and at all costs.

That is the the real test beyond technical jargon and If someone provides a working example that works over different protocols as you have suggested that will be end of discussion :)

same here firefox

The usability is very annoying obviously

True, changing the nature in this way, we might produce sth with side effects beyond our control and more dangerous is detecting it early, because we are playing with a huge and complex circuitry of nature,and probably we assume we know enough, but I suspect we know less that one percent.

sure that would be interesting

You are right upto 1948, when we fought for our independence to get rid-off Dogra Raj, and became independent and affiliated with Pakistan. So Pakistan did not occupy us. Each side (both India and Pakistan) narrate this story for her benefit :)

None of this goes through POK (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azad_Kashmir), could you reference any? If you are thinking of Gilgit-Baltistan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilgit-Baltistan), it got independence from Dogra Raj in 1948 after a short war, then the tug-of-war b/w Pakistan and India and rest is history.

Being one of the residents along KKH, I fear nothing except one thing, that is environmental and ecological damage that might inflict on our natural flora & fauna. Neither of the country is interested in environmental effects due to high volume traffic specially to glacier

I have lots of issues with this author and article. I am one of the locals from that region. The picture caste in this article is very biased and not acceptable. There are issues but not that bleak as depicted by the author. Specially the things describe about Gilgit and Hunza are not correct.

The KKH has greatly helped reduced the poverty and its a vital resource for us and all the remote communities.

"Violence has been a part of life here since Pakistan and India were partitioned in 1947" >> absolutely wrong , its started after US started funding Taliban after late 90s and now its completely peaceful.

"the signs of the cheapness of life are everywhere—starving children and maimed old men line the sidewalks" >> there is poverty but not that much as forcefully describe here.

"more than 10,000 people have been shot, bombed and lynched there during the ‘90s alone" >> Ask who was behind it ? and you will get name , who funded cold-war, .. just the same b.s again ..

"A stone’s throw from the Line of Control between Pakistani- and Indian-held Kashmir" >> I dont have any good words, there is not a single place where we are so exposed to LOC crossfire.It could be Kashmir but not Gilgit-Baltistan(GB).

Lots of lies and biased commentary .. take it with grain of salt.

Most of the article is biased reflections of the author.

The real problem did not start with Facebook and other social media being fake. It was the main stream media that started to generate fake news with the support of their local governments. No one can explain better than [ https://chomsky.info/ ].

The other issues is international, before this year US elections, US used these so called social media to "export its kind" of democracy to other part of the world, call it Arab Spring and rest of the events in middle east and recently in Turkey. It was perfectly legitimate to use them as under cover agents of democracy.

History has taught a lesson to American( sensible ones) who were closing their eyes/or unawre of world events specially and how they affected the people around the glob using "Democracy" "Freedom of speech" "human values" while violating the exact same thing at the same time.

Their bigotry has revealed in a strange way, but its too late for lots of people, for Americans and for the rest of the World.

What are the alternatives:

a). Free media the ways it should be, main stream media is polarized itself already and dictated by high in the Govt. offices.

b). Accept that democracy does not work sometimes if its helping hands are already chopped off e.g participation of civil society, feed media etc ..

c). Do not spread democracy for the sake of democracy if its more evil than dictatorship.