ferdo

I think one of us is misunderstanding the other's position.

Heckling is one of the oldest forms of political dissent. If one can't handle heckling, one shouldn't be a politician or any kind of public figure.

The man showed up to a civil affair in military garb and most likely, though we don't know, had some kind of muscle with him.

His point is already made without firing a shot at the hoi-polloi.

That's not really the point to having an armed escort, is it?

> I have a feeling they believe their own bullshit.

Some of them do believe their own bullshit. They're not any less of a threat to us than the ones that don't believe the BS but are down with the program because they're getting paid.

He most likely had an armed escort, unlike his opponents.

Costumed popinjays have proven far more dangerous in history than those that make fun of them.

General Alexander isn't worried about social niceties. I won't worry about them either when expressing my opinions about him and his peers.

> conspiracy theorists

The Gulf of Tonkin being used as a lie to manipulate Americans into the Viet Nam War is historical fact, not a "theory".

I also hate using reductio ad hitlerum, so imagine my confusion in finding it pertinent.

The Gulf of Tonkin Incident is a prime example.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_incident#Distort...

The US government is going to attack itself again and blame "terrorism".

Personally, I'm sick and tired of "OMG! SHARIA LAW!" being used as the excuse to spy on all of us. The same demagoguery was used by the Nazis (using Jewish law) as the basis for their depredations.

> "Why do so many countries want to attack us?" the person asked.

> The general replied that America stands in the way of them reaching their objective, which is to force everybody to comply with sharia law.

> "They want to attack us because we're bombing them!" shouted another person, to much chuckling from the audience.

And General Alexander should get a costume that doesn't make him look like one of the Love Boat crew.

Judging by the history of the past 40-50 years, we Americans love being tricked, over and over again.

Senators have time and access to be harsh statesmen. We, the Surveilled, have only enough time and access to let them know what we think.

What they're doing is bullshit and they should be reminded of it every second of every day by anyone that can tell them.

Secret courts, secret trials, secret prisons, secret wars...maybe I need to learn why my ancestors left Germany.

This isn't politeness on Welch's part. This is how every member of the upper tiers of the MIC should be treated by the entire country:

"Until this moment, Senator, I think I have never really gauged your cruelty or your recklessness...Little did I dream you could be so reckless and so cruel as to do an injury to that lad...It is, I regret to say, equally true that I fear he shall always bear a scar needlessly inflicted by you. If it were in my power to forgive you for your reckless cruelty I would do so. I like to think I am a gentle man but your forgiveness will have to come from someone other than me."

When McCarthy tried to renew his attack, Welch interrupted him:

"Senator, may we not drop this? We know he belonged to the Lawyers Guild. Let us not assassinate this lad further, Senator. You've done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir? At long last, have you left no sense of decency?"

McCarthy tried to ask Welch another question about Fisher, and Welch cut him off:

"Mr. McCarthy, I will not discuss this further with you. You have sat within six feet of me and could have asked me about Fred Fisher. You have seen fit to bring it out. And if there is a God in Heaven it will do neither you nor your cause any good. I will not discuss it further. I will not ask Mr. Cohn any more questions. You, Mr. Chairman, may, if you will, call the next witness."

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_N._Welch#Army.E2.80.93Mc...

There's nothing civilized about being polite to people that are actively undermining our rights.

Politeness is reserved for society, not for antisocial personalities.

Shouting "bullshit" might nudge a couple of people out of their slumber.

If Joseph Welch had been "polite" to Joe McCarthy instead of talking to him like the opportunist that he was, McCarthy would have stayed in business.

Politicians and bureaucrats won't change until people start treating them with contempt, both socially and professionally.

Playing nicey-nice with people that have little to no conscience doesn't work as a method of political change.

How does a guy that makes excuses to spy on us all and lies to Congress deserve any courtesy?

Coincidence theorists, the ones that believe whatever they're told by whatever authority figure they believe in this week, are the ones with stunted cognitive abilities.

"Terrorists are the problem we must address" is no different from "Satan is trying steal your soul" or "Commies are gonna destroy our way of life" as a means of manipulating the more gullible people in a population. It's worked for centuries.

"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you need to concentrate on."

-George Bush, repeating advice given to him by Robert Strauss

No sign on the door indicates that they know they should be ashamed even though shame doesn't appear to be one of their guiding lights.

edit: great little piece, btw. I'll pass it around.

> The NSA is but a cog in a greater machine

Indeed. I always follow The Money because that's who owns the government.

America, including the NSA, is owned by the same small cartel that have the monopoly on the issuing of our currency and credit. Coincidentally, they're the same cartel we're "indebted" to.

Most people have never heard of the four largest banks in the world:

http://www.northerntrust.com/documents/white-papers/asset-ma...

My point is that I don't need politicians and professional warriors to tell me who my enemies are.

> Until then the people have spoken by ballot.

Are you so sure of that?

http://www.blackboxvoting.org/

Government accounting is a tricky business, especially when dealing with matters such as this. At one point, DoD couldn't account for over $2 trillion and that was over ten years ago:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-325985.html

I agree that balance is key, as emphasized in Eisenhower's warning. From my perspective, that balance was lost long ago as no one in the upper tiers of government, the defense establishment or in finance/industry (or the citizenry) paid one bit bit of attention to any of Ike's warnings in that speech:

> "Another factor in maintaining balance involves the element of time. As we peer into society's future, we -- you and I, and our government -- must avoid the impulse to live only for today, plundering, for our own ease and convenience, the precious resources of tomorrow. We cannot mortgage the material assets of our grandchildren without risking the loss also of their political and spiritual heritage. We want democracy to survive for all generations to come, not to become the insolvent phantom of tomorrow. "

The only enemies I have are those that actually infringe upon my rights using force and fraud.

I was under the impression that Obama had ended the war in Iraq. How can Manning aid an enemy if there's no war going on?

Bradley Manning put his life on the line and has essentially lost it also.

He joined the military, saw that his organization was acting in a manner that was morally reprehensible and then did something about it. Of course, the same system replied in a manner that's just as morally reprehensible as Manning demonstrated.

The danger of rationalizing evil through the old truisms of "Patriotism, Security, Etc" is that it can corrupt those that rationalize it instead of saying, "This has to stop."

> it's a FACT that they are the ultimate line of defense for our nation's independence.

It's a fact that the military-industrial complex exists to protect the military-industrial complex. Our nation's independence was sold to moneyed interests in the last century.

> government with an organized-crime-level-of-corruption.

We're getting there, military or not.

When I see other members of the military putting themselves on the line like Manning did, they'll get my respect also.

Going above and beyond is part of duty. I'd like to see more of it. Nothing will change until then.

> What are you doing today?

Working to pay taxes so the salaries of public employees and military personnel can be paid.