fqye

You missed my point. I am not questioning the images.

> If you read this report thoroughly, you can find out it just shows there are this sort of buildings in Xinjiang but no logic or proof that they are concentration camps and there is no evidence at least in the report that the buildings are in use.

There are lots of accusations against China's Xinjiang practice. They are all mixed together unintentionally or intentionally to mud the water.

The accusation of concentration camp is exaggerated and there is no credible hard evidence. This report is highly questionable. That is my opinion and what we are debating now.

Human right issues in Xinjiang? Yes. I am not questioning that.

> Here, we have millions of eye witnesses and tons of corroborating evidence.

The fact that this report is up to questioning shows that it isn't true. If you read this report thoroughly, you can find out it just shows there are this sort of buildings in Xinjiang but no logic or proof that they are concentration camps and there is no evidence at least in the report that the buildings are in use.

Because history told us that public consensus and official conclusion could be lies. Remember the reason that the US invaded Iraq?

If they were actual camps, can someone explain why they were all empty? No cars, no trucks, no detainees, no guards at all?

To supply and run a crowded camp, you need guards and logistics. Nothing there.

Nowadays, researchers could easily obtain satellites images showing actual activities with all those clues.

Just by looking at the images, it not possible to draw conclusion they were concentration camps. They could be barracks under construction and that would also explain why blanket at Baidu map. The report didn't explain its logic to conclude they were concentration camps. And they didn't even consider other possibilities at all.

It is not serious research.

Remember the satellite image analysis of Wuhan's hospitals' parking lots that was supposed to reveal the true scale of covid19 outbreak in Wuhan? High resolution images with all the details. Still lots of flaws and no one takes it seriously now.

New York Times obtained some leaked confidential documents of China's Xinjiang policies. Nothing even close to concentration camp was revealed. It actually did CCP some favor.

I mean, to steer a company through power struggle between the US and China is very interesting and could be a big plus for future high profile jobs. Unless he doesn't have much a role at the table and feel hurt. I assume it is the case.

Maybe you got the logic wrong?

This arrest is actually an opportunity to test if the new security law has some merits. Jimmy Lai has the resource to defend himself in court. Let's wait for it to unfold.

When it comes to politics, HN is similar to Reddit. People just comment by emotion and ideology, because they could feel the satisfaction by chanting the beautiful words of democracy and freedom, without burden of insightgul knowledge of history and culture of other people and countries.

Some here even wanted to start a war with China in the name of human rights. Remember crusades in the name of Christian?

Most people here don't know or don't care if HK was a democracy under UK, and don't care if there is a law to guard the arrest of Jimmy Lai and if ordinary HK people are sick of Ted Cruz etc coming to HK to fan up fire when HK was burning, whom and also other US politicians Jimmy Lai has met with.

Edit:

For those who don't know, Ted Cruz came over to HK to show his support in Oct. 20019 when HK was burning. And the most despicable was he claimed no riots in HK. That was the moment HK's fate was sealed.

https://www.cruz.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=4714

https://www.scmp.com/comment/opinion/article/3032751/ted-cru...

HK's political movements have no leadership or strategy at all. This kind of acts would turn all Mainland people against them. And CCP would feel empowered to do what ever.

My point is the situation in HK is much complicated than beautiful democracy vs evil CCP. It's much more than ideology.

You are shifting the debate.

No. China's internet market has always been extremely competitive.

And there were some debates about why China could produce some big internet players and eventually it was generally accepted that for one China has a big, or is THE biggest single language market and the other one was because in the early 90s or 200s China's authorities, who were mostly older guys in their 40s or 50s and didn't know anything of internet at the time so they didn't regulate it but let China's and overseas players compete. It was then so many talented people returned from silicon valley like Charles Zhang and Robin Zhang and also some local guys like Jack Ma and Pony Ma of Tencent kicked off their startups. And it was those local guys who grew really big because they knew China better.

The local start ups even couldn't list in China's stock exchanges but had to go list in Nasdaq, HKEx or NYSE.

It was only when China's younger regulators took power they started to setup the GFW and all other policies. Until then it was wild west.

You couldn't be wronger.

Alibaba wasn't protected by the government at all. Ebay's then CEO bought a local e-biz site eachnet and relocated to Shanghai but still failed at competing with Alibaba.

Amazon bought some local e-biz site too and failed at competing with Alibaba too.

MSN was a huge player in China with far more users than QQ when it was taking off. ICQ was in China too. At the time IM wans't a big deal for big players. Tencent went IPO as very small startup, far less than Sina, Sohu etc., China's portals.

Chinese internet giants could win because they adapted fast to local market.

> Do you not realize it was Xi and his propaganda that caused a massive change in opinion of the west? The state news agencies constantly blames everything on foreigners and the west.

I don't know where you got that from. CCP stopped long ago painting the US / western countries as enemies and sources of today's problems of China.

The fact is, Chinese and China in general are much less ideology sensitive now. Given current hostilities from the US, CCP propaganda and China's new medias still haven't called for hate of the US at ideology level. There were hash words against the US, but all targeting very specific actions, for example shutting down of Huston consulate, and specific person, for example Pompeo. There is no ideology level attack.

It is a very large topic to discuss why and when Chinese people stopped admiring the US. I would only say it all started in 2008 financial crisis. It was then China's elites, here I mean both the ones educated in the western countries and the ones with no foreign education background, started to question the soundness of the financial market regulation system of the US and corruption of the US politicians, and then everything else. And when China could produce its own hero startups and entrepreneurs, like Jack Ma of Alibaba, Pony Ma of Tencent, Yiming Zhang of ByteDance, Lei Jun of Xiaomi etc., Chinese people feel more confident that its own system might just work. And Trump administration and the handling of covid19 are the latest blow. CCP doesn't really need to do anything.

All the other matters you mentioned like South China Sea, disputes with India, Xinjiang etc. aren't new problems. They have been there for ages. They are not the factors driving the changes.

I am not exaggerating about the US losing it credibility in China.

The US was really the shining city on the hill before 2008 financial crisis. I personally was huge admirer of the US system. I even spent about 1 year in DC just to study the political system of the US.

Before the 2008 financial crisis, China tried to copy everything from the US, from finanical market regulations to education system and to some degree, political system reform. There was a period when academics and even some very senior CCP members called for small government, separation of party and administrative system, and they even used the term 'put power into cages'.

The 2008 financial crisis that started in the US made China's elites within the party and outside of the party think hard if the US system is really the answer. Trump administration, the handling of covid-19 and the BLM protests further changed the view towards the US and made it impossible for those friendly with the US to promote the US value system in China now.

Tiktok is considered a national pride because it thrives by open competition in the US and the world. This act of forced selling without a due process for Tiktok to defend itself from accusation of spying for China would absolutely be another huge blow to the credibility of the US in China.

It is fair to accuse China of anything. It is the actions the government or law makers take that matter.

I think Trump administration is them problem. It is amazing to see how much a single term of an irrational president could damage a country in almost every aspects.

So what? If CCP isn't allowed to be defended here, isn't this place exactly what CCP is?

Bing is accessible from China. FB and Twitter must comply with censorship rules and storage of user data in China, among other things, to operate in China. Google was operating and accessible in China until China made clear the rules for them to follow. Google decided it couldn't follow they they pulled out the search engine business from China. China didn't force Google to sell. Censorship is bad but that is another issue.

And to do personal attack doesn't make you look smart.

If the US forced ByteDance to sell Tiktok, the US would lose its last bit of moral high ground in China, the spirit of free market and rule by law.

If you are worried about data leakage to China, you set rules and law and enforce them. That is what China is doing. They asked Apple and other cloud service provider to store data in China. The US could setup clear rules and regulations about where to put data of US users and if it is allowed to send the data to third country like China and then enforce them.

And China asked companies to set up jv in some sectors before they entered China market. They didn't do it after they were already here. Microsoft destroyed China's local word and spreadsheet editor software developers and China didn't ask MS to sell its China local business.

This act is pure bullying and imperialism. After that happens, the US wouldn't be able to command any support from Chinese people when it accuses CCP of anything.

Just curious. How much faith do Americans have in current DOJ’s credibility after the whole Trump impeachment show and Barr’s political driven handling of Muller report? To me I believe the current DOJ can make political allegations with very weak evidence or even with no evidence at all. I am sure China would say show us the evidence and we all know it’s not gonna happen.

Not arrested. They were given a warning and asked to sign a sort of declaration that they agreed what they said were wrong then were sent to home. Still bad but not the same as being arrested.

Intesting. Hubei provincial and Wuhan city governments are being bashed hard for covering up and ineffectiveness in handling the crisis and China’s central government is being praised.

Can you read? In what way did I hint that?

Checkout all the threads @ 知乎, China's Quora. And it's been all over China's news and social media since the beginning.

https://www.zhihu.com/search?type=content&q=%E9%9D%9E%E6%B4%...

WTF. This crisis has been openly discussed in China from the very beginning. And yes pork price has been going up steadily , but there was no such thing as political crisis. I mean China is not angel but it is absurd to smear China with nonsenses like this.

There was another side of the story. Another video of this particular event shared among Mainland Chinese students showed that the HK students picked fight first and one female HK side student faked fall to ground after the Mainland side tried to push her away gently. Chinese students were angered by the selective coverage by BBC. BBC was also criticized for its selective coverage of HK protect that became riot. The most criticized case was a video showing a police officer pointing a short gun at protesters. There was a few minutes of video before that showing mobs attacked and beaten some police officers then this particular officer loaded the shotgun with rubber bullets.

HK protect started peacefully now turned into riot with no clear political purpose. The extradition bill is dead already. I haven't heard any clear political demand from those protesters afterwards. It could hardly be called pro-democracy demonstration now.

Four packages... And Huawei called Fedex Vietnam customer service. They explicitly said the package was reouted on request from Fedex U.S.

Check this: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/28/huawei-says-fedex-diverted-p...

According to FedEx’s website, the status “exception” means an unexpected event is preventing delivery of a package, for example a customs delay, a holiday, or no one being available to accept delivery. FedEx declined to give details on what the exception was in this case.

According to Huawei, a FedEx customer service representative in Vietnam replied to their inquiry on May 22 when two expected packages did not arrive on time, saying: “Please be informed that FDX SG received notification from FDX US to hold and return the package to US. Hence, the shipment is not deliver to consignee and now being hold at FDX station and under process to RTS it (return to sender),” the representative wrote in broken English, according to an email Huawei showed to Reuters.

I am Chinese, living in China and have been pro-U.S / democracy my whole life. But the recent actions by Trump government, U.S corporations, Fedex etc., and academics (IEEE etc.) made me angry. The U.S government provided no evidence of Huawai spying or backdoor but acted hysterically to kill Huawei. And your corporations and intellectuals are helping it.

And there are lots of Chinese like me feel the same. Trump and his China haters are pushing away a large group of influential Chinese elites in all different professions, intellectuals, government officials, (yes, there are a lot of pro-U.S / democracy government officials in China), entrepreneurs, engineers, doctors even who used to admire the U.S.

This is far more damaging... There will be cost.