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This is why I said you'd have to squint really hard to find something like this. You're clearly moving the goalposts here. I didn't ask about just a working solution, which could be almost anything. Even just something as hacky as everyone running an ftp server might fit such an extremely vague criterion.

But to run with your new scenario, professional programmers could come up with just a working solution quickly. However, lots of CS students could do the same. Pretending like no CS students can program reasonably well is disingenuous.

> most CS students would take months to even be able to finish a basic program

I don't have statistics on that, but I suspect most seniors and juniors could get something working in far less than a month. You're just trying to paint them in a worse light here. It's not like CS students don't have larger projects they complete in relatively short time frames.

> And it would fall over as soon as you sneezed at it.

I bet the that would be even more so for programmers with no CS experience. The reason I mention P2P programs is that they require CS fundamentals to function reasonably well. And CS students would be far better equipped to look up and understand and implement those things. Your average programmer who thinks CS is unnecessary is likely to write something that indeed 'falls over as soon as you sneeze at it' here because under a real load, it will not perform well.

> While there will be exceptions on either side, run that race a thousand times, and the programmers would win the majority of times.

For writing yet another Rails website or somesuch, maybe. For an example like mine, that requires in-depth CS knowledge, not a chance! I think the reason you are so confused is that you assume CS students can't be 'programmers' and/or you're mentally pitting experienced devs against new CS students. I doubt a new programmer that didn't have CS knowledge would do well at any of this!

> I will concede that being good at CS will give programmers an advantage in solving problems in a subset of domains.

> I suspect I could add the word small to advantage and subset and that statement would still be true.

I doubt that's even close to true. You need CS knowledge to optimize programs and to design reliable services. It would only be true if you squint really hard and cherry pick some domains where CS knowledge isn't valuable and cherry pick what counts as 'academic CS knowledge'.

I would have edited my previous reply, but it was too late.

> I doubt most CS grads could do this.

Of course not, but the point is that the information can be valuable for making real things.

> Even in public state university tuition is quite high.

Compared to what, the price of a hamburger? In state tuition can be 1/2 or 1/3 the price of out of state tuition at the same school, and state schools have lower tuition than a lot of other unis already.

I'm amazed that it takes a month to refresh basic concepts like BFS and DFS.

There are however people who can fairly easily write graph traversal and recursive code on a whiteboard. I wouldn't mind someone not knowing Dijkstra's well enough to code it from memory, but I'd be leery of someone who struggled with basic recursion, either writing the code or running through it and reasoning about it.

They probably assume if you know programming, Ruby, and everything else you should be fine with Rails. Quizzing people about minutia that can be easily Googled doesn't really sound like a great way to find apt candidates.

> Are they not different skill sets? One is a practical skill, the other an academic one.

I'd like to see you design and program a P2P networked program without any CS knowledge, like Kazaa or Bit Torrent, that actually works as well as they do.

> I've met "programmers" who had depth of theoretical knowledge but couldn't code their way out of a paper bag.

That's true for lots of fields, but it's not hard to see that that doesn't mean theoretical knowledge isn't useful.

nurikabe is at least as good, imo.

Because the initial increase in pay and lifetime increase in earnings is well worth it. Why do so many people get car and house loans they take more than 2 years to pay off?

That doesn't seem true in a lot of programming jobs, and from what I heard also not in other engineering jobs.

You basically said it yourself. They could just go to instate public schools.

Managers always seem quick-witted enough to come up with justifications for anything, sometimes even preemptively declaring they don't want to hear about subject X. So why would I point out obvious things? And why not ask the other devs? You have lot more of them. Plus a week is pretty early. You could ask them every month or every other month.

It's company policy and it gives them an opportunity to think of a positive spin for things before someone else hears about the complaints first, say though glassdoor or some other means.

Unless your ass is in the shape of a bunch of curved piano keys.

Because nto everyone suffers from Stockholm syndrome?

There's also off-heap space usage.

You're missing Scalajs.

Is there a good book for SBT, like SBT in Action? Amazon reviews for that aren't glowing.

> Then they made a photocopy of our ID for a file. Which again raised my suspicion, I’ve rented many apartment before and none of properties ever asked for that before signing the lease

That sounds like a red flag with the article/author. What apartment place wouldn't do a background check and want ID to make sure they go the right person?

Intestinal Combustion?

It's even better when you or a recruiter has sent them your resume and it's obvious that they've ignored it and are looking at your outdated LinkedIn profile.

How do they know how many times they can re-use the rocket? Do they xray it for cracks every 5 flights?

Someone imported and released Capybaras?

Does that not apply to all major metropolitan areas?

You mean doing nothing but chatting on Sunday for 30 mins if they don't have any conflicting plans? I bet most people would be fine with that for an otherwise great job. A quick chat that's not so quick and also involves doing work before or after it, not so much. So how honest are you being here?

That was my impression as well. Managers get shifted around to cover up problems and are protected by their superiors. And look at how a lot of low level managers come to be - there's no real training or requirements that are specific to management, they just want to go from dev the management. And there's also next to no oversight for the managers, just, "Did your team hit its goals?" They are the modern equivalent of medieval royalty. I think they person who talked about women leaving the company for better opportunities is probably right.

Maybe each gender could have a set that's the superset of their common needs. Or maybe it was meant that the superset can equal the original set.

Sounds Mario 2 themed.